Page 25 of 27 FirstFirst ... 152324252627 LastLast
Results 481 to 500 of 528
  1. #481

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    As for Zhang Kexin, I am sorry to say but I really hope that she does retire. She doesn't seem to enjoy skating at all and I can't recall another skater who would show such a complete lack of projection and performance skills. She doesn't seem happy and it might be for the best to move on to something different.
    The fact that someone has a complete lack of projection and performance skills does not mean that this person does not enjoy skating or competing. The simple truth can be that the person is naturally introverted and never learned how to 'act'. Projecting is like acting or pretending. Some are good at it, some struggle with that. I know a lot of people who look miserable when skating even though they enjoy it.

  2. #482
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Fair enough, maybe she's just a very shy person who finds the performative aspect difficult. Or maybe she gets nervous and 'freezes' in that regard.

  3. #483

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Fair enough, maybe she's just a very shy person who finds the performative aspect difficult. Or maybe she gets nervous and 'freezes' in that regard.
    Or maybe it is cultural and therefore much harder to overcome than for Europeans and Americans. Chinese pairs were like that in the past too.

  4. #484

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Staring at the ocean, anywhere anytime
    Posts
    9,866
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    11372
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    This. I'm still wuzrobbing him from 2003 Worlds.
    Me too!

  5. #485
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    As for Yan Han, I don't think that Lori Nichol has played to his strengths particularly well when choreographing his programs for this season. I would have preferred to see somebody else work with him (and the Ladies) for a change.
    He needs programs that showcase his flow, not ones that make him do toe steps and shrug.

  6. #486
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,152
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    The fact that someone has a complete lack of projection and performance skills does not mean that this person does not enjoy skating or competing. The simple truth can be that the person is naturally introverted and never learned how to 'act'. Projecting is like acting or pretending. Some are good at it, some struggle with that. I know a lot of people who look miserable when skating even though they enjoy it.
    Agree.

    Anyone remember when Fumie Suguri and Shizuka Arakawa first entered seniors? They could not be more stone-faced.

    Suguri ended up becoming one of the most expressive and musical skaters (though declined in recent years), and Arakawa really opened up in terms of projection.

    On an unrelated note, I think Chengjiang Li was totally hosed in his competitive days.

    He had the most spectacular 4T and 4S (with correct entries) and was years ahead of his compatriots Guo and Zhang in terms of presentation. He seems to have a good rapport with his skaters and I hope he does well coaching.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuOTAO9ZeTQ

    Each of these quads would be at least +2 GOE in my book.

  7. #487

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,046
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Kexin 'looked' she was not enjoying skating because she is shy to express her personality on ice. Besides, I think she's been struggling in these two seasons. Reading the posts above she's had conflicts with Mingzhu Li. And also she had difficulties to maintain quality of her jumps because of her puberty and disease. She focused on her technical elements and it made her face blank. I kind of hope she'll stick around at least one more season. Her situation will be changed since Li's gone. It can go either way, better or worse. Well, one can only hope...

  8. #488

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,683
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    8867
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    He needs programs that showcase his flow, not ones that make him do toe steps and shrug.
    Han Yan worked with Lori only last season. I am sure in the coming seasons, it will get better.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  9. #489
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Kexin 'looked' she was not enjoying skating because she is shy to express her personality on ice. Besides, I think she's been struggling in these two seasons. Reading the posts above she's had conflicts with Mingzhu Li. And also she had difficulties to maintain quality of her jumps because of her puberty and disease. She focused on her technical elements and it made her face blank. I kind of hope she'll stick around at least one more season. Her situation will be changed since Li's gone. It can go either way, better or worse. Well, one can only hope...
    She upped her jumping content to Lipnitskaya level (7 triples, 1 3/3, 1 2/3 and 2 2axels) this past season and she had looked very focused on the jumps all season. Perhaps if she finally becomes comfortable with her jumps and programs, she can shine a little more.

    Shy or not, she has a long way to go to command reasonable PCS.

  10. #490
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Or maybe it is cultural and therefore much harder to overcome than for Europeans and Americans. Chinese pairs were like that in the past too.
    It's most likely also cultural, considering Chinese culture is much less individualistic and being humble is seen as important. Those two things must make it much harder to convincingly embody the EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME NOW! persona on the ice.

    Whilst you're less likely to see a Chinese skater showing the 'charismatic showman' kind of performance, the Chinese Pairs and Chen Lu have proven that you can develop a different kind of performance ability, one that is softer and more romantic, yet still quite elegant and refined.

    The problem with Zhang Kexin is that she hasn't really been going anywhere in that regard. I guess that between puberty and the difficult relationship with her coach, the conditions weren't exactly optimal. So maybe I shouldn't be writing her off just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    He needs programs that showcase his flow, not ones that make him do toe steps and shrug.
    Exactly. I'm thinking longato music and long sweeping movements. Not pretending you're a ruffian and are going to get all the girls...

    (Btw, Nichol wanted Li Zijun to 'flirt with the boys' in her tango SP as well so I guess it's something she's particularly keen on but I really don't think that it's a good idea for those skaters.)

  11. #491
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Turzynbaeva is the new Gedevanishvili
    Posts
    8,468
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It's most likely also cultural, considering Chinese culture is much less individualistic and being humble is seen as important[/B].
    Thanks for summarizing the values of over 2 billion people. What is the source of your vast knowledge, anyway? The Good Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Those two things must make it much harder to convincingly embody the EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME NOW! persona on the ice.
    Chen Lu needs to come smack you.

  12. #492
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Siouxs View Post
    Thanks for summarizing the values of over 2 billion people. What is the source of your vast knowledge, anyway? The Good Earth?
    I was obviously speaking in general terms, because yes different people are different and whenever you study people and cultures you can only operate with various degrees of certainty and it can never be absolute.

    It is pretty common knowledge that Chinese culture is collectivist and it has been widely described in scientific literature.

    The Basics: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Col...alist_cultures
    The Numbers: http://geert-hofstede.com/china.html (China's Individualism score of 20 places it in the lowest band.)

    It's also pretty common knowledge that humility is seen as a very important value in Chinese culture.

    An example: http://www.ipedr.com/vol29/24-CEBMM2012-Q00050.pdf

    Traditional Chinese culture places great importance on humility and arguably amongst the world civilizations the Chinese were the first to promote humility. In one of the most ancient Chinese texts Classic of History, the Book of History reports [4], put complacency and humility at the level of heaven.
    It goes on, giving more referenced examples.

    So next time perhaps spend 5 minutes on Google before attempting to mock someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Siouxs View Post
    Chen Lu needs to come smack you.
    She was definitely charismatic and outwardly expressive but she was a lone exception in Chinese skating.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 04-30-2014 at 03:54 AM.

  13. #493

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    429
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    She was definitely charismatic and outwardly expressive but she was a lone exception in Chinese skating.
    Sui Wenjing is a star too

  14. #494
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Two-foot skating = BAD
    Posts
    20,473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    Sui Wenjing is a star too
    You are right. I was thinking about Sui/Han when writing that sentence and I shouldn't have said 'lone exception' because those two have definitely shown 'a spark' and a lot of attack in some of their performances.

    Lately, however, I feel that this part of their performances has been getting lost and they haven't been living up to the promise they've initially shown. I hope they can get their mojo back because they definitely have the capability to be great performers.

  15. #495
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,769
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6417
    I agree that Chinese society is more about collectivism and humility--that said, I don't necessarily agree that humility affects performance. For instace, many Chinese students I know are rather humble about their Math achievements but that does not affect how they perform Math. I know skating is a sport and is different; I do think some of the acting/sexy posing/etc may be a little uncomfortable for some, though I do think Chinese have no trouble with moving with elegance and performing with confidence (like Chinese gymnasts, for instance).
    I guess, what I'm saying is, humility does not necessarily translate into "inwardness", for lack of a better expression.

    eta: I do think it's possible that modesty is an issue, though I really haven't studied this enough to say that with certainty
    Last edited by jlai; 04-30-2014 at 04:31 AM.

  16. #496
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,199
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    43906
    Success in academia is quite different from projecting on stage or in an arena. Many Chinese ballerinas I've seen are technically wonderful, but have needed to be coaxed out of their shells over time, and I've learned to be patient.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #497
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,769
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6417
    Perhaps what we are discussing is being uninhibited, which to me isn't necessarily an issue of humility.
    Perhaps this is an issue of modesty though.

  18. #498
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,818
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't think so - there are a ton of Chinese gymnasts who have/had a ton of performance ability, so I don't see why the figure skaters won't be able to do it.

    And Pang and Tong + Shen and Zhao had amazing performance ability as well

  19. #499
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,180
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    To be fair, the S&Z and P&T of late 1990s and early 2000s were quite different from those from 2003-4ish onwards. Pairs was China's #1 priority and these pairs only got to improve because they had decent results from late 1990s onwards and therefore resources to justify hiring external advisors. With Han Yan's success, I think men will be #2 ahead of ladies now.

    In the recent 20 years when Chinese skating became more popular / competitive, we have seen about 1 or 2 skaters out there who can naturally perform. I guess in a weaker nation, the more important factor is getting the jumps done because that's how you make it out of Nationals. This was almost the exclusive focus at the expense of spins, stroking and of course, musicality, finesse and choreography.

  20. #500

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,046
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    To me Kexing's shyness is more individual matter than cultural. She seems to be on the shy side even off ice. On the other hand, Zijun or Yan are not. Especially Yan on weibo is very entertaining. I think in more desirable situations she could have been more expressive. Wish she'll know she has international fans including me. But if she feels happy to retire, I never blame her. I just wish her the best.

Page 25 of 27 FirstFirst ... 152324252627 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •