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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Another category that is used sometimes in 'Profile', or alternatively 'Highlights', which lists key points in the resume. I find it useful in two cases. The first is when a resume is very detailed and complicated and a person has oodles of experience - the profile can summarize the qualifications neatly and persuasively at the top.
    Mine does this. It describes me in one sentence and then says "Selected Accomplishments Include:" and has four bullets with really name-brand accomplishments. So if they don't get to the 28 years experience and six different jobs, at least they know I can open a museum, launch an international advocacy campaign, redo your brand and maybe get you in the NY Times.

    But it really is most useful for oldies like me.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalle View Post
    Does this depend on the industry?
    Absolutely everything about finding a job depends on industry!

    It is not the norm in my industry to send thank you notes or to keep your resume to 1 page, for example. In fact, it's the norm to fill up your resume with crap to make it longer IME. (And, FTR, as someone who interviews people and hires them, I hate that and it doesn't fool me that you have more experience than you do.)

    I have been in this industry for over 35 years, my resume is 3 pages long, and it only covers from 1994 onward. My resume is considered very concise for my industry and I get a lot of job interviews out of it -- which means it serves its purpose.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    One simple way to get started is to find a resume that you like, maybe from a friend, and use that as your template. The headings, bullets, spacing, etc. will all be there and you will have an outline of what content should be included.
    Just a caution on this. In the past when my job included hiring, I received hundreds of resumes - and you can't believe the number that I opened only to find all the "track changes" fully visible.

    Always go to a pdf when you are done. This also helps when you are sending resumes that might get printed, and you don't want your bottom line to flip to a second page (I've seen that too) or the printer to go haywire because you've used some fancy formatting that doesn't translate. And they use different paper sizes in different parts of the world, so for international applications, always format to their size (ie A4 in the UK).

    In general, go with simple clean formatting and one of the basic fonts anyway - unless you are going for a visually creative job, the content should speak louder than the fancy fonts.

    I've also read letters that sound familiar and lo and behold found the same copy somewhere else in my pile. While I am a believer in research and referencing, a cover letter is not the place I want to see that.

    Some employers, depending on how closely they look and the type of job, will also check the properties of a document to see if it was created by the applicant or someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    Mine does this. It describes me in one sentence and then says "Selected Accomplishments Include:" and has four bullets with really name-brand accomplishments. So if they don't get to the 28 years experience and six different jobs, at least they know I can open a museum, launch an international advocacy campaign, redo your brand and maybe get you in the NY Times.

    But it really is most useful for oldies like me.
    I am old like you Haven't needed it in several years, but my most recent resume starts with a 3-bullet Professional Profile that says what kind of person I am, then the job listing (because hirers hate having to hunt for that), then Career Achievements, similar to what PRLady describes. The rest is on page 2, and there's a page 3 for certain circumstances.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalle View Post
    Does this depend on the industry? I feel like this comes across as nagging. There are so many people applying for jobs these days that I wonder whether hiring managers want to be dealing with extra emails at any stage of the process. I had a friend who was did this and maybe it was something about the way she talked about it but it always sounded like it would just end up being irritating and potentially counter-productive to me.
    A simple thank you note (2-4 lines long) is not nagging. It is courteous. And it keeps your name in front of the hiring manager. If other candidates do it and you do not, you will look less polite. If a hiring manager is swamped with daily emails, he/she can choose to ignore your note. What WOULD be irritating would be a phone call, because that would interrupt whatever the person is doing and force him/her to talk to you again.

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    What do FSUers think about printing a resume on colored or textured paper? Some people believe this makes your resume stand out from the average black and white laser-printed variety. Personally I have copied my resume at a print shop on nice paper (e.g. parchment) and used an off-white or beige color. As a hiring manager I would be irritated with a pastel or bright color paper. Also, printing professionally and/or on a laser printer ensures that your ink will not run if it gets wet, like ink jet ink does. God forbid that someone should spill a drop of coffee or water on the resume while reading it!

    Also, what do you think about electronically submitted resumes? I agree with the post about using PDF format. This gives you total control over the appearance of the final document. If you submit a Word file rather than a PDF, you are relying on the recipient to have the same fonts as you. If your font is unusual, the resume could display strangely with a substitute font.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    What do FSUers think about printing a resume on colored or textured paper? Some people believe this makes your resume stand out from the average black and white laser-printed variety. Personally I have copied my resume at a print shop on nice paper (e.g. parchment) and used an off-white or beige color. As a hiring manager I would be irritated with a pastel or bright color paper. Also, printing professionally and/or on a laser printer ensures that your ink will not run if it gets wet, like ink jet ink does. God forbid that someone should spill a drop of coffee or water on the resume while reading it!
    To be quite honest, I think it's a terrible idea. Some textured papers will jam in a photocopier feeder, which is a pain in the *ss if you are trying to run off copies of a bunch of resumes (e.g. to distribute to the members of a selection committee). Coloured paper may make it difficult for some people to read the document, and frankly I would question the professionalism of anyone who submitted a resume on a pastel or hot coloured paper.

    The furthest I would go in terms of coloured paper is maybe a very pale ivory....i.e. not too far off from white. NO texture.

    Also, what do you think about electronically submitted resumes? I agree with the post about using PDF format. This gives you total control over the appearance of the final document. If you submit a Word file rather than a PDF, you are relying on the recipient to have the same fonts as you. If your font is unusual, the resume could display strangely with a substitute font.
    I agree with the PDF idea. I have had some horrible experiences with resumes submitted in Word, where something went sideways in transit with the formatting, and the document ended up with weird spacing or weird character substitutions. If that happens and the employer is using a program that scans and selects resumes based on keywords, the resume could get passed over even if its content is great, because the keyword gets missed.
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    The Objectives section can be useful because it gives you a chance to state what your long term goals are. If you applying for an entry level position, it can indicate to the company that you are interested in advancement and making a long term commitment to them. You can also add 'which utilized my skills in ____ ' or 'allows me to develop my abilities in ____', which gives you a chance to highlight skills that may be very important to the employer right up top.
    I would agree with you IF that's what Objectives sections generally did. IME they don't and that's why I detest them.

    Everyone says they are interested in long-term commitment and advancement. Everyone says they want to use their skills as a good communicator [which is often counteracted by the spelling and grammar mistakes elsewhere in the document, but that's another issue], to have the chance to be dynamic, hard working, a people person, etc, etc. And as someone doing the hiring, that gives me absolutely no help in determining who might be suitable and who isn't, because everyone says the same thing.

    I like the idea of a Highlights or Selected Accomplishments section much better. That allows the person to show off what they can do or have done. And at the hiring end I can also tell from looking at the entries in that section whether they have read the job description, and if they have really thought about what they have that relates to this particular job.
    Last edited by overedge; 10-04-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    What do FSUers think about printing a resume on colored or textured paper?

    Also, what do you think about electronically submitted resumes?
    For tech and 21st century companies, anything other than 20-24 lb bright white paper is a no-no. Why? Because they all go into the OCR scanner to be converted to data. No on fancy fonts, too. If it's not a standard font, it may not scan properly.

    For the electronic resumes, if they need a special format (typically MS-Word 2007 or ASCII only), supply that format. If they don't specify a format, you can try PDF, but some PDF resumes may be rejected in the text to data conversion.

    In my last 3 jobs, all converted resumes to data. The interviewer had the extract, not my "as submitted" resume. One interviewer was very happy that I had brought the real thing as his extract was very hard to read.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    In my last 3 jobs, all converted resumes to data. The interviewer had the extract, not my "as submitted" resume. One interviewer was very happy that I had brought the real thing as his extract was very hard to read.
    You should always bring at least 5 copies of your resume to a job interview as well as writing samples or other examples of your work. I would also bring a list of references with contact information in case they ask for that. Be prepared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Everyone says they are interested in long-term commitment and advancement. Everyone says they want to use their skills as a good communicator [which is often counteracted by the spelling and grammar mistakes elsewhere in the document, but that's another issue], to have the chance to be dynamic, hard working, a people person, etc, etc.
    I find generic wording to be a problem in general. A lot of people also say that they are a 'strong team player who also works well independently'. Or in personal statements for medicine, that they are 'compassionate and want to help people'. Ect., etc., etc.

    I prefer to show rather than tell, or use less generic wording such as 'able to build a rapport with clients' rather than 'strong communication skills' but when their is no experience to show the skill it can be a tough call whether or not to use the generic wording. Usually I err on the side of caution and include it, but try to find more unique and specific wording elsewhere. And some generic words are also keywords, so they have to be included.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 10-05-2012 at 09:11 AM.

  11. #31
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    Well, we landed a huge account at work today, but I sense thay are going to clean house. Since most of my co workers are lifers who never expressed interest in doing any other task, I may be safe, but better safe than sorry.

    So, I really needs to do a good sales presentation-Convert features to benefits. Sounds like a busy weekend.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    You should always bring at least 5 copies of your resume to a job interview as well as writing samples or other examples of your work. I would also bring a list of references with contact information in case they ask for that. Be prepared.
    Again, this all depends on the industry and the job. Therefore, when getting advice, it's important to get advice from people in your industry ... preferably ones who actually do interviewing and hiring.

    Personally, I have never needed 5 copies of my resume. At most I needed 1 for someone who forgot to bring theirs to the interview. That is because 100% of the time, the resume is submitted electronically and everyone prints their own copies and marks them up beforehand (or not.. sometimes the people interviewing me are woefully unprepared ) I generally bring 2 copies just in case, because I tend to be over-prepared.

    I have never been asked for writing samples either. Never. Not even in the 80s when I was very junior. Once in a while I'm asked for code samples but that's unusual especially for a senior position. Instead, the trend is to make you write code on the board or to give you a coding problem to solve before you come in for the interview.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    There's a lot of good information on here! I feel pretty good about the format of my resume; it was created by the career center at my college and I've kept it updated.

    Now the next part is getting responses from some of my online job applications. I've applied for at least 15 different jobs in the last month and have had one interview. I work in retail and am looking for an entry level position in a corporate office. I'm not sure if there's a lot of applicants out there or if my experience isn't translating or what. Do you guys think it's annoying to follow up an application by phone call? I do it by e-mail when possible but there's some that I just haven't been able to find.

  14. #34
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    I am ALWAYS asked for writing samples, sometimes submitted with the resume, but my job is heavily dependent on first-rate writing. I am also asked for clips of stories I've placed with major media, which has gotten a lot easier with Internet links -- but I have to ensure the stories are still there! (I PDF major placements so I have them just in case.)

    And here's a weird one..I've been asked to provide URLs of media appearances. Which I have. And then I show up at the interview and if it's a woman -- men are too afraid to look sexist -- she always says, wow your hair is different! Uh, yeah, I don't do blow-dried anchorwoman hair unless someone else is doing it for me.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

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    Much of the advice here is great if you're applying for a job where they actually use your version of the printed resume. More an more, though, the resumes are going through an OCR scanner and into a database or are going directly from the web upload to a database. The employers query the database for applicants who match their keywords, then export the applicant data to a report that is sent to the screeners and hiring managers.

    If you're applying in tech and pharma particularly, pay as much attention to your keywords as you do to your format. For your resume to pop out at the end of a query, you need the right keywords and need to repeat them. I try to include my keywords in the cover letter, in the work descriptions, and in a section called Keywords at the end of the resume.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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    There was a time when the worst threat to any written document was if the lawyers got hold of it. Now it's the SEO police.

    While I understand such systems may be necessary for large companies hiring hundreds of people, where is the human touch? I've never applied for anything that insisted on electronic submissions (email OK, but not some program to fill out), and if I had known my application would first be judged by my ability to optimize for search, unless I was applying at Google or the like, I would absolutely not want to work for this company.

    If this is how they hire, is it also how they manage people?

    Forward thinking companies are getting away from the cattle call method of hiring and returning to more human forms of applicant review, looking for attitudes and qualities as much as actual education and experience. Is there a search program that can pick out those intangibles among the keywords? Sometimes out-of-the-box candidates are the best hires of all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Forward thinking companies are getting away from the cattle call method of hiring and returning to more human forms of applicant review, looking for attitudes and qualities as much as actual education and experience. Is there a search program that can pick out those intangibles among the keywords? Sometimes out-of-the-box candidates are the best hires of all.
    I don't know about that. Most of the companies I've worked for, including several that are known as "forward thinking", have taken HR completely out of the hiring process. The algorithms can pull a candidate with an MBA and 10+ years of experience, so there's no need for a human to do the initial screening. I do miss the opportunity to advance my candidacy through a phone call or email, but most companies don't even list a contact anymore. That's why it's so important to have an inside contact so that you can bypass the sorting hat.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    The algorithms can pull a candidate with an MBA and 10+ years of experience, so there's no need for a human to do the initial screening.
    That's exactly what I mean - sure there are some jobs that really do require a specific degree and very specific experience. But over the years, I've seen so many ads that begin with xx degree and xx years of experience in the exact same field or industry sector, when in reality you don't actually need those things to do a good job, and having those things doesn't guarantee you'll be any better than the next guy.

    Or what if the program only pulls MBAs with 10+ years experience. What if there are awesome candidates who were educated in other countries, or who may not have had the means to pursue multiple degrees at A-list schools? What about people who have only 9 years experience? Or what if their experience is in another field where similar skills can be applied, but with fresh insights?

    I once hired two people on the very same day. One had about 7 years experience doing exactly what the job required, and she had been to a top tier school. The other was a kid - a year out of a lesser school, with experience in the right profession but wrong industry. Naturally, given the parameters laid out by the company, the first person started at a salary well above the second.

    But you guessed it - within weeks it was clear that it was the youngster who was the star - smart, a fast learner, well organized and able to take on more work than the position originally required, mature for her age and very responsible, and simply a star across the board. The other person - the one with the good school and experience - was good at her job too, but never progressed at all.

    A program would have never given me the youngster among the hundreds of applications I had for that position, but because I read every one of them myself, I was able to look for clues to their attitudes and personal qualities that I knew I needed. If there's a computer program out there that can find me people with a sense of curiosity - seriously, a very important quality I was looking for in my team at that time - then I haven't heard of it.

    And boy oh boy have I seen a lot of hires who came with MBAs and many years on their resumes and much fanfare who lasted no more than a few months on the job because they were completely the wrong fit for the company, brought the wrong attitudes and didn't actually have the skills required. The very definition of "looked good on paper."
    Last edited by Jenny; 10-05-2012 at 04:18 PM.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    A program would have never given me the youngster among the hundreds of applications I had for that position, but because I read every one of them myself, I was able to look for clues to their attitudes and personal qualities that I knew I needed.
    I guess it comes down to how many applicants you expect to have vs. what special qualities you need that aren't easily found in a person's CV. My current company has over 100,000 employees, and we average 50+ applicants per posting. We currently have about 2,000 jobs open all over the world and most of them require specific experience. Some automation is needed, as none of our field locations have HR departments. The alternative would be to pull billable resources offline to screen resumes.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    Much of the advice here is great if you're applying for a job where they actually use your version of the printed resume. More an more, though, the resumes are going through an OCR scanner and into a database or are going directly from the web upload to a database. The employers query the database for applicants who match their keywords, then export the applicant data to a report that is sent to the screeners and hiring managers.
    A few years ago I was looking around and noticed this, or something or similar. I had to put my experience in the company's website. This was a huge pain because it is double the work because they all ask for something different so you are putting in sometimes 4 hours per resume submission. Ack.
    What would Jenny do?

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