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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    What were we supposed to like about Suguri?
    I like that she skated like she loved to skate.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-01-2012 at 06:02 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plusdinfo View Post
    Have you seen that posted anywhere?
    Thanks in advance for any info.
    Sorry, I can't find it any place on Youtube. I have it on DVD but have no idea how to post a video on Youtube.
    What I would like to add is that I really cringe when I watch a video on Youtube of Maria skating on a US network. Sometimes Dick Button & Peggy Flemming were just plain rude about her.
    When Hughes, Kwan or Cohen made errors there were just small & it was okay because they were so amazing but when Maria or Irina made errors they really made cutting comments. I find the Eurosport commentators much nicer.
    Another great Maria skate was at the 2002 ARD gala on ice. I love watching it.
    I will try & find that on Youtube.
    Last edited by PashaFan; 10-01-2012 at 11:42 AM. Reason: error

  3. #43
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    Found it !.
    Just put in Maria Butrskaya 2002 ARD Gala On Ice on Youtube. It's such a lovely skate.

  4. #44
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    Just want to say I love Maria. She was and remains one of my favorites. When she won that world title I actually cried. She was truly an original and I loved her for that.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    Sorry, I can't find it any place on Youtube. I have it on DVD but have no idea how to post a video on Youtube.
    What I would like to add is that I really cringe when I watch a video on Youtube of Maria skating on a US network. Sometimes Dick Button & Peggy Flemming were just plain rude about her.
    When Hughes, Kwan or Cohen made errors there were just small & it was okay because they were so amazing but when Maria or Irina made errors they really made cutting comments. I find the Eurosport commentators much nicer.
    Another great Maria skate was at the 2002 ARD gala on ice. I love watching it.
    I will try & find that on Youtube.
    I agree most of what you are saying, although Peggy rarely says anything negative about anyone. Dick can be very cutting, and I agree that he holds Maria and Irina to a higher standard.

  6. #46
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    I'm curious. What about Maria's skating made it mature?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I'm curious. What about Maria's skating made it mature?
    For me, it was the time she took between the jumps & spins. She was not just jump, spin then jump then smile then spiral. It always looked honest & real.
    She would take time for such a simple thing like an arm movement or a look up to the crowd.
    Her 2000 sp at the worlds seemed much longer than the others as she took time for everything. Truly special.
    The younger girls like Hughes skated through their music sometimes. Maria let the music take her through the program.

  8. #48

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    I think Maria also did a lot of her own choreography. It does show when a skater can invest themselves in their music. And she could be elegant or sexy (like when she did Fever).
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Maria was underappreciated by the judges and by her own fed.
    She was underapprciated by judges. I'm not so sure about her own federation though. She did win nationals a whopping 6 times. It took Irina 7 attempts before she finally beat Maria at nationals. The Russian federation must have liked Maria enough.

  10. #50
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    I loved Butyrskaya, stiff knees and all. I wish she had won the bronze at the '98 Olympics.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    She was underapprciated by judges. I'm not so sure about her own federation though. She did win nationals a whopping 6 times. It took Irina 7 attempts before she finally beat Maria at nationals. The Russian federation must have liked Maria enough.
    Or bombed enough all the times before that point...
    I did not see 1995 russians nationals, but for sure Slutskaya did not deserve the title from 1996 to 1999 at all on the ice. In fact she came fourth two seasons in a row : 1998 & 1999 and for some good reasons.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nours View Post
    Or bombed enough all the times before that point...
    I did not see 1995 russians nationals, but for sure Slutskaya did not deserve the title from 1996 to 1999 at all on the ice. In fact she came fourth two seasons in a row : 1998 & 1999 and for some good reasons.
    This is very true. Butyrskaya had some of her best skates at Russian Nationals.

  13. #53
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    I will admit Irina was the federation favorite over Maria and if Maria even had somewhat shared support, even if Irina were still considered #1, Maria would be more of a threat for gold medals and medals in general at the World level. I dont know why the Russian federation couldnt just support both. They supported multiple teams/skaters in mens, pairs, and dance over the years, but I guess they had less confidence in their ladies so felt they could only pick one to push for.

    That said I dont know if Maria is really underrated. She wasnt a truly outstanding skater in either the technical or artistic aspects of skating, even at her best. She wasnt a great competitor either and often choked under pressure- the 98 Olympics where she gave away an almost certain medal with a bad skate, 2000 Worlds where she had a great shot to defend her title after winning the short and choked badly, 2000 and 2001 Grand Prix final which she had a great shot to win but blew and came 4th, and many other events she was 1 bad mistake from a higher placement- 96 Worlds, 97 Worlds, 98 Worlds. In her era she was almost never one of those really contending for gold, but one of those fighting for bronze behind the dominant 2 at a given time, either Chen or Kwan, or Kwan and Lipinski, or Kwan and Slutskaya, and usually she wasnt even the favorite for the bronze either. She wasnt part of a great rivalry, or one of the key rivals to Kwan. So all things considered why would she get much more recognition than she gets.

  14. #54

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    Maria was part of a great rivalry ... Russia/Soviet Ladies Vs the World Championship Curse ... it is unfathomable that Russian/Soviet women, women from a super power that produced Mens, Pair, and Ice Dance medalist regularly, could only produce one Olympic Bronze and one World Silver through an underappreciated Kira Ivanova and a World Silver through Irina Slutskaya... until a 29 year old written off past her prime Maria Butryskaya won Worlds.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-27-2014 at 03:08 AM.

  15. #55

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    I always loved Maria and always cheered for her. I think it was because she was sort of the "underdog" and older and "written off" by her Federation that made me champion her-as well as her lovely skating of course. She was just absolutely beautiful.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I'm curious. What about Maria's skating made it mature?
    Her knees creaked and she wore Depends when she skated ;-) I'm joking of course. Although I'm not a fan, I did love her look on the ice as she was extremely beautiful and very sexy… then she started to skate. Still, Fantastic that she has such a huge following and will be talked about for decades. That in itself deserves great respect.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Her knees creaked and she wore Depends when she skated ;-) I'm joking of course. Although I'm not a fan, I did love her look on the ice as she was extremely beautiful and very sexy… then she started to skate. Still, Fantastic that she has such a huge following and will be talked about for decades. That in itself deserves great respect.
    Not a very nice joke. Not toward Maria and not toward the elderly who actually face those things you mentioned. Why not just state the good things you said after that? It would have made a really nice post.

  18. #58
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    I'm not sure she was underappreciated.
    She was not the favorite of the Russian Fed, for sure. But obviously, she was not the most talented, and she achieved a lot, and was loved by the public, no ? Good enough, considering her skating was not particularly impressive.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Not a very nice joke. Not toward Maria and not toward the elderly who actually face those things you mentioned. Why not just state the good things you said after that? It would have made a really nice post.
    Like I care what you think. Just put me on ignore as you seem to hate everything I say anyway.
    Last edited by Ozzisk8tr; 01-27-2014 at 10:53 PM.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  20. #60
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    The judges were willing to give her back to back World titles (1999 and 2000), an Olympic medal (1998), 3 Grand Prix final titles (1998, 2000, and 2001), and 6 World medals (1996-2001), despite that she isnt even that good a skater. That she failed to take atleast half of those opportunities is her problem. If anything she was overappreciated and overrated. A jerky skater without great athletic ability who choked and couldnt skate clean programs under pressure.

    Yes the Russian fed favored Irina over her, but who wouldnt. The Russia fed were looking for someone who could beat Michelle Kwan, and to a lesser degree Lu Chen, Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes. On one hand you hand you have a skater with limited technical ability, good B-level artistry, who is a poor competitor, and who is waiting too long to rise to be a top skater meaning the judges arent as excited about her as a young rising star. The other you have a much younger skater, with the best technical merit in the World if she is on, decent artistry, speed and energy, who is a fairly strong competitor. Who would choose the former to support as their #1?

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