Who's career was hurt most by School Figures: Janet Lynn or Denise Biellmann?

[floskate]

Janet definitely from your choices. Biellmann was helped enormously by the introduction of the factored placement judging system in 1981. Even the fact that she doubled her combination in the SP couldn't stop her. If they still had the total points system in use then we may have been looking at someone like Wegelius as world champ!!

I agree Ito was hurt by figures but also agree that even without them she would have won nothing major until '89. Perhaps Olympic bronze at best in '88 (which I agree would have been a travesty. She was clearly the very best there when you combine the SP & LP).

[Seerek]

Also keep in mind that free skate scoring in that era didn't really utilize the spectrum of the 6.0 score as widely as was utilized in 1980s onwards. Compare that to the judging for figures, which used much more liberty in applying "gaps" between the skaters (which over 6 figures widened the overall gap after the figures segment).

I think Trixie Schuba probably was top 10 in free skating, but I believe she'd need scores around the 5.0 range to be overtaken by Magnussen or Lynn, marks which were only applied to the last placed skaters.

[Seerek]

Repeat Post

[Alex Forrest]

You are right Ito probably wouldnt have won the 88 Olympics without figures, but that is a pure crime if so. Without figures she should have been the clear winner with her spectacular in everyway 7 triple free skate (nobody else did more than 4 IIRC), especialy with the tech. score as the tiebreaker. Atleast Manley would have been a more worthy winner of those Olympics than Witt, although who knows without the figures they may have fudged the scores futher to still make sure Witt won.

Midori Ito at 88 Olympics was sheer perfection. But it didn't matter. As TripleButz alluded to, just look at 87 NHK (which did not have figures) where a sloppy and off Witt still managed to beat Ito. Calgary would have been no different. So even without figures, Ito would have been denied.

I understand being on home ice, but Manley even was way behind Ito and should not have won the FS. Both Ito and Manley were perky/energetic skaters and certainly not glamazons on ice, but I found Manley's choreo to be so contrived and little girly (Irma La Douce, are you serious?!) Considering Ito's lack of presentation, I think her choreographer was a genius with this program. Starting off right away with a nice layback, always doing something before or after a jump. I thought Ito KOd Manley here. And the SP? How Manley beat Ito in the short is still a mystery, except for home ice advantage.

[judgejudy27]

Witt and Manley were both held up in the SP. Ito, Kadavy, and Trenary all had much better performances. I didnt like Trenary's short much but she did cleanly (sort of) land a triple flip combo, you would think that would count for something. I had them 4th and 5th in the SP at best but they were 1st and 3rd. I didnt see Manley's figures, but I did see Witt's, and I have to believe she was majorly held up to place 3rd since the footage I saw they were awful. Someone like Trenary who is known for strong figures was only 5th, again I didnt see hers but as there was no reports of her choking and blowing them (eg- like the 87 Worlds) I have a hard time believing hers werent better.

Still if I were a judge I admit I probably would have scored the LP 1. Manley, 2. Ito, 3. Witt, not because I thought Manley's program was better than Ito's but just knowing Ito had no chance of a medal anyway, and it was the only way for Witt to have lost the gold. It is amazing she went unbeaten that season when she wasnt even skating well really.