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  1. #81

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    I went to a state university (local) and lived at home. Between work, school, theatre stuff, I was only there at night--seemed seemed silly to pay money for a bed when I lived 10 minutes from campus. I did spend a year in London (study abroad program), which was more expensive, but I'm trying to remember what it cost (I was in college 82-87) and if I remember right, it was about $3000 a semester, and there wasn't a limit on credits for the semester. 15 was full time, but I usually had 18.
    "Me, cutie/chicken, the egg cup, I am the hammer of my spoon!"--Jen_Faith translation

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by genegri View Post
    That being said, I find good writing skills not crucial in today's business world. It's "nice to have", but far from necessary. Critical thinking is important. Networking with the right people, skillful self promoting, playing office politics will get one farther. Yes, I am feeling very cynical today.
    I agree. I am currently in the business field, and people, native speakers of English or not, write poorly. And since good writing is not awarded, I find my writing more and more like my coworkers'.

    Critical thinking is still important, though, as our field is a fairly technical one. But being "obedient", networking with the right people, self promoting and playing office politics, even more important.

    Currently at my state some univ chancellors are touting the new $10,000 degree program ideas but the ones who are toying with the ideas are the less prestigious univs, and a couple of them, in less expensive parts of the state.
    Last edited by jlai; 09-29-2012 at 04:48 AM.

  3. #83

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    I work in marketing, where the ability to speak and write well is considered extremely important, and can make or break your career as much as your financial and analytical skills can.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    Having gone on a couple of college visits with my nephew now, admissions counselors are just selling the college. It is all butterflies and unicorns and monkeys in the psych lab and of course you'll get a great aid package and did we mention the cheesecake catered in to the cafeteria?
    .
    Oh yeah.

    What do these four numbers have in common?
    $27,500, $18,260, $32,916, $36,140?


    ....They're the net price the same family (same income, assets, home equity, student savings) would be expected to pay at four colleges that each ostensibly meet "full need" -- as I tell parents, it is "Need" as the colleges see it. Remarkably, the way they seen need seems to vary inversely with the size of their endowments. But each college's representative touts the line that they give very generous aid, because, after all, they meet full need.

    Parents seem to find it pretty eye-opening.

    But, there are some great colleges with big automatic merit aid offers for kids with great test scores.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I agree. I am currently in the business field, and people, native speakers of English or not, write poorly. And since good writing is not awarded, I find my writing more and more like my coworkers'.
    I seriously have no right to complain because I myself am not a very good writer. I might be one of your coworkers. But I recognize good and elegant writing and appreciate it. Just don't seem to be capable of it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrAarghHrumph View Post
    I work in marketing, where the ability to speak and write well is considered extremely important, and can make or break your career as much as your financial and analytical skills can.
    I also work in marketing and am pretty successful if I may say so myself, but I am not a particularly strong writer. I imagine we must have different functions. I am not doing products. I am doing market research and strategic planning. In my function essay style writing is not very important; but guess what is? Beside quantitative skills that is. Yep, making power point slides, the mother of all evils. I must say I am great at concise and tablet style writing, suitable for presentations and emails. My job seems to consist of giving one presentation after another lately.

    Completely agree with speaking well is extremely important in marketing. Our entire marketing department are native English speakers. A far cry form our neighbor the IT department.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by genegri View Post
    I seriously have no right to complain because I myself am not a very good writer. I might be one of your coworkers. But I recognize good and elegant writing and appreciate it. Just don't seem to be capable of it myself.
    I'm not a good writer either, but I used to apply basic grammar and basic writing principles fairly well, but I stopped bothering with that as I realized I didn't need them for my job.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by genegri View Post
    I seriously have no right to complain because I myself am not a very good writer. I might be one of your coworkers. But I recognize good and elegant writing and appreciate it. Just don't seem to be capable of it myself.



    I also work in marketing and am pretty successful if I may say so myself, but I am not a particularly strong writer. I imagine we must have different functions. I am not doing products. I am doing market research and strategic planning. In my function essay style writing is not very important; but guess what is? Beside quantitative skills that is. Yep, making power point slides, the mother of all evils. I must say I am great at concise and tablet style writing, suitable for presentations and emails. My job seems to consist of giving one presentation after another lately.

    Completely agree with speaking well is extremely important in marketing. Our entire marketing department are native English speakers. A far cry form our neighbor the IT department.
    I don't know anything about marketing, but I think that good writing may not mean essay style?

    Just general composition (getting you point across fast in email? As you said, good presentations? ) and other stuff that might not matter in other jobs.

    I'm an engineer an I know I write repetitively an un inspired, essay style or not, in my native tongue or English. Luckily it doesn't matter by much in my job, and I know enough to do better than some of my peers.

  8. #88
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    In business, the style of writing that's important to be good at is technical writing.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    In business, the style of writing that's important to be good at is technical writing.
    Correct. As a former technical writer for a tech company, I can't tell you how many badly written PowerPoint presentations I was forced to listen to! Too much information crammed onto a slide, illegible font sizes, lack of clear ideas, no parallel construction, crazy use of colors, tables and charts no one can possibly understand, failure to state the main point of the presentation ... Oh, the horror of it all!

    When I was first hired many years ago, I was the first professional writer in my local division. It took one big project during my first year for managers to realize that engineers and computer scientists cannot write! I worked with the first human factors engineer they had hired to design the software interface and test it, and then write the tutorial and user guide for it. It was a smashing success, and opened the door for hiring more technical writers. It's not easy to take a complicated subject and simplify it for end users. Most technical folks have no understanding of how to write for an audience.

    Sorry to get so off topic ...

    On the subject of college debt, let's remember that there is financial aid for skaters. Anyone who is competing at the Nov-Sr level and is placing in the top 6 at a qualifying competition can apply for aid from the Memorial Fund. And if you are a college student still involved in skating in any way (competing, judging, volunteering), you can apply for the CSAP aid that is also part of the Memorial Fund application. The awards I know of in recent years have ranged from $700-2000, so that's a great help for the college tuition bill. There are other scholarships listed on the USFS Athlete Funding page as well. The deadline for the Memorial Fund application is in early to mid Sept. every year. There are eligibility requirements related to parent's income level and skating history.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    In business, the style of writing that's important to be good at is technical writing.
    I think the style of writing most important in business is business writing. Technical writing is for the technical work. There are some commonalities, but business writing is, IMO at least, quite different.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  11. #91
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    I don't know how tuition got to be so shockingly high. I went to a private college in the early '70s, it was $6,000 a year for tuition and room and board. Now, it's $45,000 to $50,000+.

    We were able to pay for both kids to go to a 4 year, live on campus, undergraduate college. Both were on the higher end price wise. But, we told them they had to get loans for graduate degrees. My daughter is at a state school getting her masters in Occupational Therapy (a great, wide open field). She used her inheritance from her grandparents for the first year and now haas taken out a loan. Not too bad, since it's a state school. My son is in a private Law School, but he has a $20,000 a year merit scholarship. Which he has been able to keep for 3 years, based on grades and class rank. He also was just offered a job at the firm he was summer associate at, this past summer. so, he should be fine. But, most of the students he is in school with have $$$$$$ debt and not much prospect of a job. Not that they are not smart and hard working, just a glut of lawyers out there.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I think the style of writing most important in business is business writing. Technical writing is for the technical work. There are some commonalities, but business writing is, IMO at least, quite different.
    I think of them as the same thing. Maybe I should have said "non-fiction writing". Because in both cases the purpose of the writing is to convey information. In technical writing, it's technical information but many of the same rules apply as for business writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I don't know how tuition got to be so shockingly high. I went to a private college in the early '70s, it was $6,000 a year for tuition and room and board. Now, it's $45,000 to $50,000+.
    My college cost 3x what it cost when I went there in the late 70s. It's crazy!
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  13. #93

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    It is crazy how much college tuition has gone up while the average income (or even just the income of a college graduate) has not gone up nearly the same degree.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  14. #94
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    The reason college tuition has gone up so much at public institutions is that the state and federal monies given to them have plummeted. They have to charge students more to cover the deficit in funding. There was an article in my local paper today describing just how Colorado State University is planning to get more money by admitting more out-of-state students (who pay 3x tuition) and by increasing undergraduate enrollments.

    http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20...text|FRONTPAGE

    Personally I think the $6,874 in-state tuition (which includes a state opportunity fund contribution) is a bargain compared to what many other colleges charge.

  15. #95
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    nm

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    The reason college tuition has gone up so much at public institutions is that the state and federal monies given to them have plummeted. They have to charge students more to cover the deficit in funding. There was an article in my local paper today describing just how Colorado State University is planning to get more money by admitting more out-of-state students (who pay 3x tuition) and by increasing undergraduate enrollments.

    http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20...text|FRONTPAGE

    Personally I think the $6,874 in-state tuition (which includes a state opportunity fund contribution) is a bargain compared to what many other colleges charge.
    That explains state schools, but not private. Private schools were already over charging and get alumni endowments. There is no reason for the cost of private schools to have increased almost 10 times what they cost 30 years ago. I would also be curious to see the progress of the increase. How much of it has been in the last 5 - 10 years.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I would also be curious to see the progress of the increase. How much of it has been in the last 5 - 10 years.
    Here you go.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...4sMM_blog.html
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Unbelievable! It seems that it has been increasing exponentially.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    The reason college tuition has gone up so much at public institutions is that the state and federal monies given to them have plummeted.
    That's one of the reasons, and it's an important one, but it's only one of the reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by madm View Post
    Personally I think the $6,874 in-state tuition (which includes a state opportunity fund contribution) is a bargain compared to what many other colleges charge.
    A bargain, relatively speaking, but it's a state school. Huge lecture classes, multiple choice tests and no critical thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Unbelievable! It seems that it has been increasing exponentially.
    There are several theories about why this is, all of them probably at least somewhat true. Retirement packages for professors. A limited pool of highly skilled people who can't be replaced by machines (although the number of students can certainly be increased through the use of technology) and expect to be well compensated. Exponential increases in administrative positions. Increases in federal financial aid. Increasing overhead costs. Decreased money from other sources (alumni donations, research grants, state aid). And several more. It's all mixed together into a fine, unaffordable stew.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

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    My son's trio program was just cut. It's a big loss. He is getting a second job to cover that loss. Lovely how aid disappears overnight.

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