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  1. #381
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    Right now the problem with US Men is besides Abbott there is no one who is a threat internationally. So even if Jeremy goes to Worlds and is in the top 5 i don't know if there is another US skater good enough to get in the top 8 to get those three spots back. There are plenty of good skaters but no one that really stands out yet. Lets hope Jason or Joshua pan out.

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ Yep, the pewter medal is definitely up for grabs.

    ROFL

  3. #383

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I'll go way out on a limb and predict Stephen Carriere will be a surprise medalist.
    Stephen has medaled on the GP and at Nationals in the past. I wouldn't count him out.

  4. #384

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    I think it will be challenging for the 2 U.S. men to place high enough at Worlds to gain back 3 spots, but there is good depth in the U.S. senior men's field at Nationals -- 14 different guys have scored 200+ total in international or domestic competition at least once this season (16, counting Weir and Dolensky who will not be at Nationals).
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I think it will be challenging for the 2 U.S. men to place high enough at Worlds to gain back 3 spots, but there is good depth in the U.S. senior men's field at Nationals -- 14 different guys have scored 200+ total in international or domestic competition at least once this season (16, counting Weir and Dolensky who will not be at Nationals).
    Right now, I believe the only men ahead of Ross and Jeremy on the Grand Prix points list this season are 1) Chan 2) 6 Japanese men 3) Fernandez. However, when you consider only 3 Japanese men will be at Worlds, that leaves Ross and Jeremy ranked at 6 and 7 in score point totals, so it's very doable to get 3 spots for Sochi '14. I know I know that you can't compare points across different competitions. But, I also bring this up because I was quite surprised when I saw the numbers. I expected the US men to be a little lower on the list.

    That still means the 2 US men at Worlds absolutely have to nail their programs. You also have to consider that those other men not doing so well this Fall w/ big score potential / international credibility such as Brezina and Amodio have the potential to score better than the US men, so in that sense, yes, you are correct that it will be 'challenging', and the Quad which bedevils the US men is a wild card.

    If Ricky ever shows the consistency we saw at '10 JGPF, '11 Nats, '11 Worlds, w/ his 3 Quads, he would be a huge asset to getting those 3 spots. In fact, I would rank him as the best shot for those 3 spots along w/ only one of Abbott or Miner ... if he got consistent.

    In summary, I think there are doors open for the US men to walk through to get 3 spots but not many.

  6. #386
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    ^^^ Ricky has three quads? Or are you referring to the 1 in the SP and 2 in the FS?

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    ^^^ Ricky has three quads? Or are you referring to the 1 in the SP and 2 in the FS?
    SP + LP combined

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    Stephen has medaled on the GP and at Nationals in the past. I wouldn't count him out.
    No one should be counted out ... That's why I think the pewter medal is up for grabs ...


    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Right now, I believe the only men ahead of Ross and Jeremy on the Grand Prix points list this season are 1) Chan 2) 6 Japanese men 3) Fernandez. However, when you consider only 3 Japanese men will be at Worlds, that leaves Ross and Jeremy ranked at 6 and 7 in score point totals, so it's very doable to get 3 spots for Sochi '14. I know I know that you can't compare points across different competitions. But, I also bring this up because I was quite surprised when I saw the numbers. I expected the US men to be a little lower on the list.

    That still means the 2 US men at Worlds absolutely have to nail their programs. You also have to consider that those other men not doing so well this Fall w/ big score potential / international credibility such as Brezina and Amodio have the potential to score better than the US men, so in that sense, yes, you are correct that it will be 'challenging', and the Quad which bedevils the US men is a wild card.

    If Ricky ever shows the consistency we saw at '10 JGPF, '11 Nats, '11 Worlds, w/ his 3 Quads, he would be a huge asset to getting those 3 spots. In fact, I would rank him as the best shot for those 3 spots along w/ only one of Abbott or Miner ... if he got consistent.

    In summary, I think there are doors open for the US men to walk through to get 3 spots but not many.
    ITA re highlighted portions. Right now I think Jeremy and Ross have the edge based on their strong programs and best U.S. men standings on the GP. Of course anything is possible, but I think the fact they are also not new on the international senior scene is also a factor in their favor, whereas other U.S. men who might do well at Nationals but who don't have high visibility or success re senior international circuit, stand less chance (aside from Adam who has once been 5th at Worlds, and perhaps Josh since he's done well on JGP and JW) of being fairly marked at Worlds no matter how well they might do should they make the team.

    For Richard, definitely it is consistency and rebuilding his confidence that are the keys.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Right now the problem with US Men is besides Abbott there is no one who is a threat internationally. So even if Jeremy goes to Worlds and is in the top 5 i don't know if there is another US skater good enough to get in the top 8 to get those three spots back. There are plenty of good skaters but no one that really stands out yet. Lets hope Jason or Joshua pan out.
    Yes, but I don't think Jeremy is exactly seen as a threat either (although he is widely respected for his talent, and he should and could be viewed as a threat, if ...). With their talent and strong programs, I think both Jeremy and Ross are at the least competitive with the best of the rest in the world. Richard certainly has the chops to be competitive too, as is Adam if he could conquer his mysterious difficulties with 3-axel (he was landing that jump no problem when he first came onto the senior scene -- it is truly a mystery why he lost it. Was his technique not perfected?). Armin, Keegan, Max, Doug and Josh also have the chops and so does Jason even tho' he is still perfecting his 3-axel. These guys all need the opportunity to compete internationally and gain experience and build rep.

    It would be nice if there could be a BEST OF THE REST competition after Worlds for talented skaters who can't get out of their Nationals due to the depth of talent in their countries (particularly Japan and U.S. in terms of the men).

  10. #390

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    What's Evan's status?

  11. #391
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    True, it was a long time ago, but Carriere was 10th at the 2007-2008 Worlds. Jeremy was 11th that year.

  12. #392

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    (aside from Adam who has once been 5th at Worlds,
    Adam Rippon placed 6th at 2010 Worlds (5th in FS), Abbott was 5th at 2010 Worlds.

    Posted in another thread but I'm replying in this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    BTW, are Tim Dolensky and Harrison Choate competing in seniors this season?
    Choate and Philip Warren are the only 2 junior men from last season (4th & 3rd at 2012 Nationals, respectively) who will make their senior debut at Nationals in Omaha.

    2012 U.S. junior silver medalist Tim Dolensky scored 200+ points in his 4th place finish in his senior international debut in Salt Lake City this past September (he landed a clean 3A in his SP there) but placed 6th in Senior Men at Eastern Sectionals and did not qualify for Nationals. From a Sectionals roundup article posted earlier in this thread:
    "Leading up to sectionals, I was having trouble with my left ankle," he told us [IN's Inside Edge bloggers] by phone. "I have a stress fracture in my medial malleolus, which is weird because that's not my landing foot. If it was my right, I wouldn't have been able to jump at all. It got worse and worse; it hurts the most on the jumps where I push off of my left foot: Axel, Sal and toe.

    "The two or three weeks leading up to sectionals were not good. I could only do triple loop and triple flip because the Lutz takeoff hurt. I was running my program with all loops and flips. By sectionals, it was finally starting to get better, but I lost a lot of training. That's why I didn't attempt the triple Axel or do a triple-triple because it hurt to pick in on toe loops."
    Dolensky recently tweeted that he has started to jump again.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-23-2012 at 03:30 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ... ITA re highlighted portions. Right now I think Jeremy and Ross have the edge based on their strong programs and best U.S. men standings on the GP. Of course anything is possible, but I think the fact they are also not new on the international senior scene is also a factor in their favor, whereas other U.S. men who might do well at Nationals but who don't have high visibility or success re senior international circuit, stand less chance (aside from Adam who has once been 5th at Worlds, and perhaps Josh since he's done well on JGP and JW) of being fairly marked at Worlds no matter how well they might do should they make the team.

    For Richard, definitely it is consistency and rebuilding his confidence that are the keys.
    How do you feel about a team that consists of Ross and Ricky? I would support that (provided they do well at Nationals) because Jeremy is a huge talent, but personally I'm tired of watching him do really well at either GPF or Nationals year after year, get my hopes up, only to be sorely disappointed by his performances at Worlds / Olympics. If we are going to get 2 spots anyway, why not just send another duo of younger skaters with more of a future?

  14. #394
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    Does Ross really have "more of a future" beyond 2014? While Ross has improved a great deal this year, I just can't picture him as a future # 1 U.S. guy. It's more realistic for Dornbush.

  15. #395
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    BTW, JPN nationals concluded and the JSF named the team for Worlds -

    Hanyu, Takahashi and Mura.

    Oda just missed the podium and Kozuka had a bad competition. Apparently, Kozuka was injured a week before.

    Not to besmirch Mura's triumph in getting on that really deep team but maybe the fortunes for the US men improved oh-so-slightly, meaning that Jeremy and co. stand a better chance of getting ahead of Mura at Worlds than someone like Kozuka.

  16. #396

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    Just came across this clip of Grant Hochstein landing a quad toe in practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtKl2R7y8zI
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I'll go way out on a limb and predict Stephen Carriere will be a surprise medalist.
    I wish that would happen. I always liked him!

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    How do you feel about a team that consists of Ross and Ricky? I would support that (provided they do well at Nationals) because Jeremy is a huge talent, but personally I'm tired of watching him do really well at either GPF or Nationals year after year, get my hopes up, only to be sorely disappointed by his performances at Worlds / Olympics. If we are going to get 2 spots anyway, why not just send another duo of younger skaters with more of a future?
    I'd be fine with Ross & Ricky going to Worlds '13 or throwing in Max, Armin, or any of the younger men. Like you, I feel Jeremy's chances at a World or Olympic medal have passed. He'll be under a lot of pressure at the upcoming Nationals & I think whoever goes to Worlds '13 we will still only have 2 spots for the Olympics. I'd love to be wrong tho. The thing is we have some younger men who don't fall apart when they make a mistake & are beginning to land quads as well in international competitions. Hochstein's quad, btw, is lovely!

  19. #399
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    Interesting comments above by all ...

    Great to see Grant Hochstein successfully landing a quad. Will be cool to see a lot of guys successfully landing quads at Nationals since that extra revolution is now deemed to be soooo important in the men's ranks. However, I'm more interested in seeing clean, fully realized programs with a quad as just part of the whole than I am in seeing flawed programs with successful or faulty quads.

    Re your query olympic:

    Whoever goes to Worlds, goes to Worlds. I just hope that all the guys are healthy and capable of bringing their best going into Nationals. I wish three guys could go to Worlds, but alas only two can go. I'm never tired of seeing Jeremy skate, and I will continue to support him and believe in him, and I will always be a fan of his skating. Someone mentioned there maybe being more of an opportunity for U.S. men re Mura going to Worlds rather than Kozuka. Perhaps, but Mura did well on the GP, and he definitely has the talent -- his only drawback might be newbie status at Worlds. U.S. guys are as good or better than both Kozuka and Mura -- but need to consistently show it!

    Jeremy had physical problems during the GP, but he still managed to skate fairly brilliant programs. Like I said, I think that Jeremy and Ross have the strongest one-two punches re their beautifully choreographed programs. I think Ricky's programs are also very strong, and if he skates them like he can and lands everything, all bets are off. But Ricky would absolutely need to do great at Nationals and at Worlds, as would Jeremy and Ross, and anyone who makes the Worlds team. We'll see what happens at Nationals in January. Based on what Jeremy and Ross have showed during the season so far, I feel that Jeremy and Ross have the competitive edge, but anything can happen.

    It would be unfortunate to see high-rated guys skate incredible programs at Nationals and then go to Worlds and run out of steam (which is kinda what happened at 2012 Worlds), or see unexpected and/ or unheralded guys do really well at Nationals, go to Worlds and skate well there but NOT get great marks because they are deemed newbies and relatively unknown. The latter is kinda what happened at 2011 Worlds. That's the conundrum. Whoever goes to Worlds need to pace themselves, be healthy and well-prepared, and be rarin' to go, as well as fully backed politically ... e.g., "Our guys have the chops and they need to be rewarded!" But then, our guys need to back up that political support and show what they've got -- NO TIME FOR TEARS OR THE WILLIES.

    Re your comments about Ross Miner, orbitz:
    If Ross decides he wants to have a future in skating beyond 2014, he will have one. He certainly has the talent, potential, and above all, the consistency along with notable success. Obviously our individual perceptions as fans are often based on who we really like or enjoy more. I give props to all the guys and I'd love to see an incredibly wonderful Nationals in all the disciplines, and then see everyone really represent with their best at Worlds. It would be great to see that, no matter the judges scores.

    Who I really really like are many, including Jeremy, Ross, Richard, Adam, Joshua, Jason, Keegan, Armin, Jonathan, Philip Warren. Plus I very much admire, Grant Hochstein, Stephen Carriere, Doug Razzano, Sean Rabbit, Alexander Johnson, Harrison Choate, and Scott Dyer.

    Wouldn't it be cool if all the U.S. and Japanese men who are very talented but who can't make it out of their Nationals could have a rip-roaring showdown styled: East vs West in a BEST OF THE REST competition?!!!
    Last edited by aftershocks; 12-23-2012 at 07:49 PM.

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I wish that would happen. I always liked him!
    Yes. So much potential. Alas, he never really puts it all together. A season and a half ago, he seemingly mastered the 3x, which was a weak spot back in '08 and '09, and I thought we were on the verge of seeing a consistent Carriere turn into a leading man for the US. However, he always loses it somewhere in the program whether it's that 3x, a Quad attempt, or even a simpler triple. There is also a frenetic quality about him that will not allow him to break through

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