U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

[manleywoman]

My fabulous transcriber for my podcasts just got to #45, which was my live coverage of the 2011 US Nationals. I interviewed Kori Ade (Jason Brown's coach) for a long time while there, and I wanted to share her comments from the transcription in this thread:

Kori Ade (coach of Jason Brown): Jason has proven himself to be a really good competitor, but I didn’t know how the factor of being senior at Nationals would affect him. It pretty much felt like he could bring his tricks and all his Jason-isms. But on the warmup, he said to me, this is different. So there’s a moment of hesitation, but then I kicked into my regular coaching, and said, this is not different. It’s like every other day in your skating world. Just go out there and do what you always do, which is skate a great program, and give the audience what they want. And I think that’s what Jason is starting to do. His idol is Ryan Bradley and I think he really wants to emulate that, to give the crowd that, because Jason’s a pleaser. He never wants to disappoint anybody, so I think he understands the importance of making it a performance in order to please the audience. That’s an important asset that he’s developing. It’s going to take some time for him to really be able to hang with the big boys, but for what we had hoped for tonight, he was actually able to deliver what we thought.

I have some kids that need different rituals [at the boards]. I have one who needs two claps, with a pause, two double high-fives, with a pause — I have to know the timing [laughs] — so it’s all choreographed for that boy. But then there are others that just want me to say ‘go get ‘em’. I just try to read, to be a chameleon, and I think because of my 11-year relationship coaching Jason, the thing he needs the most is to remember that I believe in him, and to know that when it’s over, regardless of the outcome, I’m going to be standing there with open arms and it’s gonna be fine.

Tonight I sat down while he was doing his 45-minute warm up and I wrote him a three-page letter. All week, while he’s been home and I’ve been here with my novice competitor, he’s been asking for motivational quotes on his text messages. I really avoided doing it, because I don’t want to sound clichéd and say, keep your head up, keep working hard — that’s so generic at this point. I said, I’ll give you your motivational stuff when it’s time for you to hear it. So I sat there and I knew that’s when it was going to hit me, that I had gotten a skater to senior level from march-march-glide. That’s a huge journey, a long, long journey.

So I wrote a three-page letter, and I said — I knew that when I met Jason, he presented me with the greatest challenge that I could be presented with as a coach. And I knew that it would take a lot of directing his energy and harnessing his talent, and a lot of education for me. Because I don’t have a strong competitive background, I didn’t intend to be a coach. I intended to have a career in medicine, and I sort of got looped into coaching and had to learn to be a great coach. So I believe in the power of learning, and I believe that having a skater like Jason has allowed me the opportunity to foster that, because I had to. So I don’t know — it’s probably in my personality to keep learning, but I knew because of Jason that I had to do it. It wasn’t a choice, because I care about him.

And several times in my coaching journey with him, judges or officials have said, you know, it’s really in his best interests for you to pass him along to somebody. Because I wasn’t a well-known coach, I was a nobody. And I just am really grateful to the Brown family for trusting in me, and believing in me. My favorite story that I tell other coaches is that I had another skater that started with me when she was a beginner, and when she got to the double axel, her mother — even though she made final rounds at juvenile and was progressing really well — sat me down and said, you know, we think you’re wonderful, but we know you’ve never taught a double axel before, and we don’t want our child to be the guinea pig. And I remember those words so vividly. It was a pivotal moment for me, because it was at that moment that I said, I need to go learn, because I will never have this conversation again. Ever.

And I think that’s what forced me to seek out apprenticeships and to find people that I knew I trusted to guide me. And there have been a lot of people along the way who have said, you can’t do it, or, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And I think as a coach that hasn’t proven themselves, I’ll be up against that for the next ten years, and I’ve been up against it for the last ten years, but if it’s your passion, which it has become for me, you just keep your head up, and you keep showing up every day, and you’re consistent with what you do, and you find people that know a little bit better, and you just learn. And I have to say, I’m probably the biggest nerd there is, because I spent five years at Lake Arrowhead with a video camera and notes, sitting on the side of those elite sessions, watching those elite coaches teaching, and taking notes, and then going with my video camera and filming the tracings on the ice and figuring it out. I’ve probably spent $100,000 figuring out how to be a better coach. To me, that’s my master’s degree, and I think that’s what Jason has done for me, to force me to be the best coach I can be, and I thank him for that. Because if I didn’t have a talent like that, that I had to stay one step ahead of — that was the bulk of my letter. Congratulations on getting here, I’m so proud of you, thank you for letting me be on this journey with you, and it’s amazing that you have pushed me to this level. That’s cool that you asked me that question, I’ll let you read the letter [laughs].

[Iceman]

I keep the entrance ticket in my wallet as a memento....does this count for nothing?!

Send it to Aaron as a good luck charm,

[Iceman]

Nadine White, Goebel won a bronze olympic medal, not a silver.

[Sylvia]

Nadine also forgot Boitano, as pointed out in this Trash Can thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3857249

Actually, that's FOUR, since Brian Boitano was bronze medalist at junior worlds in 1978 and gold medalist at Olympics in 1988

A new Max Aaron article was posted in his GSD thread yesterday: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3857109

Thanks, manleywoman, for posting your Kori Ade podcast excerpt about her evolution as Jason Brown's coach! I'll cross-post the link in the Jason and Josh thread in the Trash Can.

ETA that Jason Brown has finished writing his Junior Worlds blog! http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

Cute video posted today in the 2013 Junior Worlds forum in Kiss and Cry:

The offcial podium sweep video featuring Joshua Farris, Jason Brown and Shotaro Omori. Courtesy of ISU: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx5QxlUbsSQ :-)

[pinky166]

Interesting article with Max, I agree his style is more European, however at this point I'd say he's more of a KVDP than a Joubert . Joubert is very charismatic and charming with strong basics and is remotely polished. Not to mention devastatingly handsome...
Anyways not saying Max can't become a skater like Joubert in time, but for now, I think KVDP is a more appropriate comparison - amazing jumps and lots of power, but the rest is all a bit rough around the edges. Best of luck to Max at Worlds, I have a feeling he'll deliver!

[olympic]

Interesting article with Max, I agree his style is more European, however at this point I'd say he's more of a KVDP than a Joubert . Joubert is very charismatic and charming with strong basics and is remotely polished. Not to mention devastatingly handsome...
Anyways not saying Max can't become a skater like Joubert in time, but for now, I think KVDP is a more appropriate comparison - amazing jumps and lots of power, but the rest is all a bit rough around the edges. Best of luck to Max at Worlds, I have a feeling he'll deliver!

Interesting comparison, but I think that Max has more speed than KVDP and is better on certain spins.

[misskarne]

I've got it! I know who Max skates just like!


Max Aaron!

And there's nothing wrong with that...

[Spun Silver]

My fabulous transcriber for my podcasts just got to #45, which was my live coverage of the 2011 US Nationals. I interviewed Kori Ade (Jason Brown's coach) for a long time while there, and I wanted to share her comments from the transcription in this thread:

Quite remarkable! No wonder the two of them have such a strong bond. They are truly in it together. So glad you transcribed this for us.

The only thing that has me scratching my head is... Ryan Bradley? I wouldn't expect Jason to have a conventional idol, but I was thinking more along the lines of Rohene Ward!

[aftershocks]

Fairly decent sp starting positions for the U.S. men, with Max 4th in warm-up group 4, and Ross the final skater in the final warm-up group 6.

[NadineWhite]

The first thing I read on the 'net when I logged on earlier today was this: http://gma.yahoo.com/allergic-teen-d...-wellness.html

Since Joshua Farris has a similar allergic allergy, I find it scary, no wonder he travels with a big suitcase full of his own food. I recall reading that IN article wherein he mentions even touching someone that touched milk he could have a reaction.

Sorry for digressing a bit, but thought I'd share.

Back on track, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MAX & ROSS, KICK BUTT IN THE FS!!!!!!!

[aftershocks]

OMG, my heart goes out to Ross. Obviously, his quad was not secure and his nerves were uncharacteristically rattled. The severe low-balling by the judges in the sp was disastrous (I think Ross should have been no lower than 10 or 11 in sp). Why was Ross behind Peter Liebers in sp when PL didn't even attempt a quad and to boot doesn't have as good skating skills as Ross???

I wished that neither Ross nor Max would be thinking about trying to bring back a third spot. That was not something that should have weighed on them at all. If Adam and Jeremy couldn't deliver a third spot last year, why should Ross and Max be expected to? The fact third spot for U.S. men was lost in the first place rests squarely on USFS shoulders re .19 result at 2011 U.S. Nationals.

No hemming and hawing now either re who should have been sent instead of Ross. U.S. men and pairs in particular are gonna be a crapshoot for awhile until someone comes to the fore who can handle the pressure, the required jumps, the evils of CoP, the lack of savvy fed politiking support, and the dissing from ISU judges, and still perform lights out.


And good for Max! Take that ISU judges! But yeah, it'll take a lot more than that too. U.S. needs some miracle workers to fight back against all the disrespect.

[Skittl1321]

I'm happy for Max- top 10 at his first World's, having not even competed on the GP yet. Really looking forward to what he does next. I'm also happy that he pretty much proved he was deserving of his national title.

I know he gets hammered for "poor components" but quite honestly, his facial expressions were awesome and he really does get into the character of what he was skating. It was like watching the dancers in the movies.

And I've never seen a skater bounce off the wall that effortlessly...must be the hockey training, and it is good he didn't let the hit phase him.

[Cheylana]

OMG, my heart goes out to Ross.

Me too. Now he's going to be the goat and blamed for US men not getting the third spot back. But we were highly unlikely to get it back no matter which two we sent.

Ross was quite good at US Nationals, but I think the pressure of being an Olympic hopeful got to him. Either that or he's dealing with an injury.

[olympic]

I think while Ross didn't do himself any favors with his performances at London, I don't think the 'damage' is permanent in the eyes of the USFSA. However, it was a missed opportunity to establish himself as a leading US man. Instead, he's still stuck in this ever-growing pack of elite US men who always seem on the verge of breaking through, yet never ever do.

My guess is for next season, TPTB in the US are going to be keeping a closer eye on Max (no brainer), Ricky (by virtue of 4CC's), and Josh (future investment).

[pinky166]

Max has 2 GPs for sure for next season which is great, Ross does not. I just hope the USFS is smart and 1.) does not hold back Jason Brown on the JGP again to help get Miner a second GP and Rippon a 1st or 2nd and 2.) politiks for Farris to get 2 GPs before Miner and Rippon because he's been more consistent this season honestly and crushed Rippon's SB and Miner's last two international scores considerably with the numbers put up by his JW win. Just take a chance and go with the young guys who deliver for once - certainly panned out for Max Aaron.

I agree the damage isn't permanent or too severe for Ross, he's still just 22 and he can do well when he delivers - it likely just means he won't be getting PCS favors at Nationals next year which quite frankly is a good thing. I think he had the SOHL in the FS at NHK and the USFS got excited about that - it's understandable, but one good program at one good competition does not a skater make, they need to be better about looking at the whole picture and how these guys are scored and viewed internationally - both when they deliver and when they don't. Placing in the top 6 was going to be a big ask for any of the guys and only a clean Jeremy could have likely managed it. Farris or Dornbush would have likely done better but it wouldn't been enough for 3 spots and Ross not doing so well here combined with their good showings at JW and 4CC are likely to play in their favor anyways in terms of GP selection and heading into Nationals and the Olympics next year. On another note quad mayhem may be on it's way out so perhaps the US can have a "star" emerge in the coming years that won't need to be able to rattle off 4 quads per competition to be in the mix. It will be interesting to see, that's for sure. Oh, and I hope people give Max a break regarding his artistry, his component marks are very respectable and I'm sure he'll continue to work on improving that side of his skating, but for the meantime, it's just fine.

[jlai]

Me too. Now he's going to be the goat and blamed for US men not getting the third spot back. But we were highly unlikely to get it back no matter which two we sent.

I doubt he'd get blamed for it, considering the better placement is only 7th.

I hope Max isn't gonna become another one of those one podium finish wonder at nationals. I like Max (and Dornbush and to a lesser extent, Rippon). On one hand, it's great so many guys get a chance at top 3 and go to worlds or 4cc; OTOH, to develop talent you can't keep sending diff skaters year after year

[Jammers]

We need a strong contender who can finish inn the top 4 consistently internationally and we don't have that now. Max did his job finishing 7th. But i'm not sure he's the one to be that man. Maybe it will take the younger guys like Josh or Jason or even Dornbush. I don't see it being Minor and Abbott is about done his body can't hold up much longer.

[aftershocks]

Ross shouldn't be blamed for anything. It was not his nor Max's job to bring back 3 spots. Adam and Jeremy couldn't when they had every opportunity to do so.

Also, Jammers, I'm not entirely sure that Max is gonna be taken out of the running for anything, especially if a false music start at Nats and crashing against the boards at Worlds didn't deter him. He brushed off both incidents like pesky flies and seemingly just forgot about what happened and kept focused on the business at hand. I was never a huge fan of Max, but now "I'm a believer!" IMO, Max will continue to be strong next season, and if he is, he should be sent to Worlds so that he can build momentum.

More than likely if Richard stays strong next season, or anyone else among top level contenders rises significantly above the pack, they will be given a chance along with Max. It's too sad to think that Jeremy going to Worlds in 2011 might have saved the third spot in the first place and then with an extra guy on the team in 2012, it might have taken some pressure off of Adam and Jeremy. Who knows, but maybe had Jeremy gone to Worlds these last 3 years, he'd be stronger mentally. Not going to Worlds this year and seeing the results is probably more deflating for Jeremy than for anyone else. But again, it's not Max's nor Ross' fault or responsibility.

[casken]

OMG, my heart goes out to Ross. Obviously, his quad was not secure and his nerves were uncharacteristically rattled. The severe low-balling by the judges in the sp was disastrous (I think Ross should have been no lower than 10 or 11 in sp). Why was Ross behind Peter Liebers in sp when PL didn't even attempt a quad and to boot doesn't have as good skating skills as Ross???

Is it opposite day and nobody told me?

[centerpt1]

Max did very well for himself. It's only up from here, right? I wish he would find a different coach, though.

I thought Ross would be top 10. Surprised. It has to be tough to go through that.

Selecting a World team in January is always a crap shoot. How can you tell who will be skating well in March?

Jeremy might have been recovered and back on his quad in the short by March. Or not. We'll never know.