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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    However, it seemed to me that Adam's takeoff on the 3axel was much more aggressive and technically sound (and not hesitant like it was last season).
    ITA. There was less hesitation on the prep entrance before the take-off, and the jump looked complete on the landing. I can't say I'm a big fan of the choreography and music choice though, since Rippon has done these types of "pretty, pretty" programs before; Would have like to see something that made more of a statement. I did enjoy the MK's layback in his combo spin

  2. #202
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    ^^ Yes, ITA. The sp seemed like more of an afterthought or fall back to a style Adam has done before. Re the 3axel in sp, I watched again and it wasn't as aggressive as I thought, but not as much stalking as he's done before. Also, he landed it on one foot (not two), but just didn't check out properly.

    With the pre-season ballyhoo, I was looking to be really impressed with Adam's fp, and it could be that the warm-up collision and Song's withdrawal shook Adam up, but still I was very underwhelmed by his fp. Jeremy accomplished suave macho so much better in his Spy sp with more humor and panache in his choreo too, than Adam demonstrated in his Mad Men inspired fp debut. Maybe the music is a bit too slow, but Adam himself seemed much slower in both his sp (which is expected with Nessun Dorma), and even in his fp he did not seem very sharp (granted there was that unfortunate collision prior to his performance). Sorry for Nan Song and I hope it was nothing too bad and he'll be back on the ice soon.

    I love Adam and so far this season, I'm missing him and his curls. He did need technical help with his jumps, but why not just get help with Rafael over the summer and not completely switch coaches. Bad on me for bellyaching, but I want to see the real Adam soar like he did in his great programs from last season. Right now I wish he hadn't completely done away with his curls or left Detroit. He had accomplished something very special I think and more true to who he is with Shae Lynn and Camerlengo last season. Maybe he can get choreo from them for the Olympic season.

    With the strange comp that CoC was this year, I'd say Adam's programs from last season strongly performed with landed 3axel, but even w/o quads should have had him in the medals, maybe even gold with Daisuke not performing well. Do Denis10 and Machida train at the same rink as Adam? Clearly and I do mean clearly ... Adam is a much better all-around skater than Machida and Voronov, but it just does not look that way (at least so far) with the programs Adam has debuted this season.

    From what I've seen so far, I'd have Jeremy, Johnny, Richard, Ross (and even Keegan) well in front of Adam this season in terms of performances, music, choreo and costumes. But anything can happen of course. Trying to wake up and smell the roses.

  3. #203

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    I haven't watched Rippon's CoC FS yet but I'm re-posting this report from the CoC forum in Kiss and Cry that squares with other hearsay info I've received:
    Quote Originally Posted by care bear View Post
    I wish speed recovery Nan Song and Adam! Adam did a good practice [before FS] today landed 3a-3t, several 3a. The program he skated in the morning looked nice and fresh. I think he was very affected by this crash mentally and physically.
    Of course he has yet to transfer what he can do in practice to competition, but I believe his working full-time with Rafael Arutunian has been a positive move so far that hopefully will pay off for him in future competitions.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  4. #204
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    ^^ Thanks Sylvia. Indeed, Adam seems to have a good relationship with Rafael, and this is only one comp so far. Still his programs right now don't seem as strong as those from last season. I'm sorry that unfortunate collision happened. I suppose Adam performed as well as he could under the difficult circumstances and surely Rafael offered good encouragement and advice for Adam to have been able to shake off what happened and get focused for his fp performance.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Not clear who you mean by "these 3." Also re Adam's 3axel at CoC sp, I heard his coach Rafael say to him in the kiss 'n cry: "You forgot to check..." in reference to the 3axel, which Adam appeared to fully rotate but landed two-footed and fell. However, it seemed to me that Adam's takeoff on the 3axel was much more aggressive and technically sound (and not hesitant like it was last season). Therefore, it seems he needs to fine tune technical aspects on landing, i.e., checking properly.

    When Adam first debuted in seniors he was landing 3axels routinely without any problems. Perhaps his technique was not solid though, and when he later switched coaches to Orser and eventually began to lose confidence, likely his 3axel began to suffer a bit due to lack of solid technique which added to increasing loss of confidence and the problem began to snowball.

    Adam seems on the right track now with Rafael Arutunian. I wish Adam lots of good luck in his CoC fp.
    I meant Aaron, Messing, and Farris. Not saying it will happen, just that based on the performances so far, those 3 guys (and Dornbush) have been more impressive than Abbott, Weir, Mahbanoozadeh, Miner, and now Rippon. Of course it's still early and this could change. Adam's takeoff for the 3a did seem much improved, but idk if that alone is going to make it suddenly turn into a good jump for him like it's a good jump for Keegan and Josh, and Max too - although his 4s is probably even better for him. Then there's also the issue of the quad, which Adam didn't even attempt in either program. I'm willing to excuse the lackluster FS due to the collision and aftermath/affects of that, but I didn't find either program to be particularly engaging nor did I find his speed to be much improved, so essentially, I'm just saying that as of yet, the coaching/choreographer change and new programs don't seem to have lead to big overall improvements in Adam, and I think he's going to need some pretty big improvements to hope to make the World and Olympic teams these upcoming years. Of course time will tell the tale, I guess I was just hoping to be a little more impressed with Adam here than I was.

    I think the bigger issue right now is that it looks like regardless of who gets sent to the Worlds and Olympics, with the exception of Evan coming back to his Vancouver form with a quad and/or Jeremy finally skating clean programs with quads, the outcome is likely to be similar - placement in the lower top 10 on a good day or with help from some of the top guys faltering, and outside of the top 10 with mistakes. Doesn't make the odds for getting 3 spots back particularly bright...

  6. #206
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    ^^ I wouldn't go so far as being down on the U.S. men's chances this season. I also don't feel that Ross or Johnny have performed terribly -- they both have good programs and just need to fine tune their jumps. Jeremy's programs have great potential. And obviously, Richard performed very well in his season debut at Finlandia. This coming weekend, Johnny and Richard will be at CoR in a tougher field than the one at CoC. I think the U.S. men are very competitive and just need to step it up and regain their confidence and credibility with the judges. Despite his less than stellar debut at CoC, it's not a lost cause for Adam either, even though I prefer his programs from last season.

    Just look at what has happened so far this season, a lot of unexpected outcomes. The U.S. men just need to step it up and be prepared to take advantage of opportunities.

    Aaron, Messing and Farris were performing in senior B and JGP competitions respectively. Great they are doing so well and I hope they continue to succeed. Not certain however that any of their success will necessarily lead to making the World team in 2013.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-03-2012 at 10:59 PM.

  7. #207

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    I still think Ross is the US leading man. His edges are comparable to Jeremy. Most of the jumps have interesting entry and exit. I have high hope for Ross. I'm still a big fan of Ross.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    I still think Ross is the US leading man. His edges are comparable to Jeremy. Most of the jumps have interesting entry and exit. I have high hope for Ross. I'm still a big fan of Ross.
    Well, we haven't seen Evan yet. But Ross is certainly enjoyable to watch, has the "likability" factor, and he's a solid competitor. Two years in a row on the Nationals podium is impressive. I think he'll be National champ at some point. I've grown to really appreciate his skating over the last year.

    I don't think Rippon's Free at CoC tells us much. The collision must have affected his skate. So it remains to be seen how the coaching change is going. I don't care for his programs this year- but again, he has time to work on that before Nationals.

    Jeremy- who knows? It is certainly odd that they are re-working his quad NOW. He's also never had stamina issues before, but fell off at the end of his Free at SA. That and the injury last year (and possibly this year) really make me wonder how long he can hold on near the top.

  9. #209
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    ^^ Yes, I too find Ross very impressive. Jeremy has amazing talent and great programs; hopefully he will be healed and feeling strong physically and mentally as the season progresses.

    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    I still think Ross is the US leading man. His edges are comparable to Jeremy. Most of the jumps have interesting entry and exit. I have high hope for Ross. I'm still a big fan of Ross.
    I think Jeremy, Richard, Johnny and Ross all have strong programs and a great chance to make the World team. As well, Adam will be competitive if he does manage to "transfer what he can do in practice to competition," (quoting Sylvia).

    In re-checking the original IN article about Adam's foray into different territory with his new fp, I see that he began working on his fp with Michael Siebert prior to switching coaches. I'm still more partial to Adam's programs from last season (music and choreo), but he has some nice moves in his new sp and fp. It will take more time for him to polish his fp and build confidence. From the way Rafael was offering encouragement in the kiss 'n cry after both of Adam's performances, it does seem to be a good coaching match for Adam. I guess it is up to Adam to adjust to the transition and to the new direction he's exploring, and to build more confidence and attack.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MM5aUzCQfId sp Nessun Dorma

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBIXvZxq_Q sp 2011-2012 Korobushka

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMo9-f6I4ME Air/ Toccata & Fugue fp 2011-2012

    http://universalsports.com/video/201...am-rippon-4th/ Metroville fp

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    Well, we haven't seen Evan yet. But Ross is certainly enjoyable to watch, has the "likability" factor, and he's a solid competitor. Two years in a row on the Nationals podium is impressive. I think he'll be National champ at some point. I've grown to really appreciate his skating over the last year.

    I don't think Rippon's Free at CoC tells us much. The collision must have affected his skate. So it remains to be seen how the coaching change is going. I don't care for his programs this year- but again, he has time to work on that before Nationals.

    Jeremy- who knows? It is certainly odd that they are re-working his quad NOW. He's also never had stamina issues before, but fell off at the end of his Free at SA. That and the injury last year (and possibly this year) really make me wonder how long he can hold on near the top.
    The end of Jeremy's long was affected not by lack of stamina, but by the spinal nerve issues mentioned earlier. He couldn't feel his legs. At all.

    I like Adam's new FS, mostly for the music (I love "The Incredibles")--makes me feel like quoting. "EDNA. . . and guest. . . NO CAPE!" I think it has some interesting concepts in it but needs some development.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  11. #211

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    The end of Jeremy's long was affected not by lack of stamina, but by the spinal nerve issues
    Exactly my point- he's hit the wall of injury that affects his skating. It seems Lysacek is in the same boat.

    Is it training the quad? Are the years of training just adding up? Are they over-training? Whatever the cause, it's a shame that the US's best men have had this happen now.

    I hope Jeremy and Evan will be healed and ready to go for Nationals (and hopefully Worlds)

  12. #212
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    I suspect overtraining in Jeremy's case. He talked a lot in his interview about training hard and then having an inexplicable inability to perform at his event. That's classic overtraining.

    Of course, I have no idea what's really going on. It's just what I yelled at the tv when he was interviewed after Skate America.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    That camel change camel is spectacular. Totally +3 - worthy.

    I am confused about his long program layout. He usually does a 3flip3toe but with the 3flip being his very last element in the program and with him not even attempting a combination with the flip at Cup of China, I wonder where his third combination or 3/3 is supposed to be. Is Arutuniain pushing him to do a 3axel3toe?

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That camel change camel is spectacular. Totally +3 - worthy.

    I am confused about his long program layout. He usually does a 3flip3toe but with the 3flip being his very last element in the program and with him not even attempting a combination with the flip at Cup of China, I wonder where his third combination or 3/3 is supposed to be. Is Arutuniain pushing him to do a 3axel3toe?
    I think the 3s in the beginning is supposed to be a 4s, and then his lutz is supposed to be 3lz-1/2lo-3s like last season, but when he triples the opening sal, he probably has a backup plan to change the lutz combo to 3lz-2t-2lo so he doesn't Zayak but still gets the 3 jump combo in. In this case he could have gone for that combo anyway where he popped his first 3a, but he probably trains to do the 3-2-2 combo every time he triples the first 3s just to prevent an Oda, regardless of what might happen on the 3a. Considering he did 1a-2t in the beginning, I assume he isn't going for a 3a-3t but just a 3a-2t and then probably plans to do 3f-3t in the 2nd half of the program.

    All speculation, of course. But last season he had a smart layout with 3f-3t, 3lz-1/2lo-3s, and Rippon 3lz all in the 2nd half of his program to serve as a buffer for not having a consistent 3a or quad. And I do recall at WTT when he did only a 3s in the beginning of the program, the lutz combo became 3lz-2t-2lo instead. I don't think it's that unusual to have a safety net plan like this and think that's probably what he did here. The 3f is the last jump so maybe he plans to add the 3t to a different jump, perhaps the 2a, earlier in the program but still in the 2nd half. It would be cool/impressive to do a 3-3 as your last jumping pass though so that could be the plan.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by luenatic View Post
    I still think Ross is the US leading man. His edges are comparable to Jeremy. Most of the jumps have interesting entry and exit. I have high hope for Ross. I'm still a big fan of Ross.
    I like Miner very much, but he does a lot of stroking to gain speed, and in my opinion, doresn't carry it as efficiently as Abbott.

    I think Abbott is in the top handful of men when it comes to using his edges and knees to gain and carry speed, and his lean over the edge is second to none.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    I think the 3s in the beginning is supposed to be a 4s, and then his lutz is supposed to be 3lz-1/2lo-3s like last season, but when he triples the opening sal, he probably has a backup plan to change the lutz combo to 3lz-2t-2lo so he doesn't Zayak but still gets the 3 jump combo in. In this case he could have gone for that combo anyway where he popped his first 3a, but he probably trains to do the 3-2-2 combo every time he triples the first 3s just to prevent an Oda, regardless of what might happen on the 3a. Considering he did 1a-2t in the beginning, I assume he isn't going for a 3a-3t but just a 3a-2t and then probably plans to do 3f-3t in the 2nd half of the program.

    All speculation, of course. But last season he had a smart layout with 3f-3t, 3lz-1/2lo-3s, and Rippon 3lz all in the 2nd half of his program to serve as a buffer for not having a consistent 3a or quad. And I do recall at WTT when he did only a 3s in the beginning of the program, the lutz combo became 3lz-2t-2lo instead. I don't think it's that unusual to have a safety net plan like this and think that's probably what he did here. The 3f is the last jump so maybe he plans to add the 3t to a different jump, perhaps the 2a, earlier in the program but still in the 2nd half. It would be cool/impressive to do a 3-3 as your last jumping pass though so that could be the plan.
    There was a report of Adam doing 3A-3T in the report about the collision:

    " wish speed recovery Nang Song and Adam! Adam did a good practice today landed 3a-3t, several 3a. The program he skated in the morning looked nice and fresh. I think he was very affected by this crash mentally and physically. Voronov said at presser that he and his skating was affected too because he saw how it happened"

    It seems like 3A-3T might be part of the plan.

    The free skate seems to be a departure from the type of program he usually does - not a "pretty-pretty" program at all.

  17. #217

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    I am really looking forward to seeing how Ricky and Johnny do this weekend. They are in a very tough field - so it should be interesting.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by maureenfarone View Post
    The free skate seems to be a departure from the type of program he [Adam] usually does - not a "pretty-pretty" program at all.
    Yes, the LP is a different style. I've only seen it once, but there were a lot of hand gestures in the choreography that annoyed me. It looked like he was rolling the dices at one point but at other times I was puzzled; I couldn't tell what the gestures represented in the Mad Men era.

    I know Michael Seibert has worked on shows like Skating with Celebrities before, but has he done any competitive programs before?

    I do like Adam's shorter hairstyle and the non-fussy approach to his costumes this year.

  19. #219

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    Armin Mahbanoozadeh skates #3 and Douglas Razzano #16 at Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria today (approx. 3:30 pm Eastern start time) - link to the live stream is posted in the event thread in Kiss and Cry as well as in the TV Alerts forum.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #220
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    I give up... at this point I don't see how we can bring home three spots

    I love them all and yet I want to .

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