U.S. Men 2012-13 news, updates & general discussion

[olympic]

Ross is also more watchable than I remember. He has nice glide and jumps, and this is just a tiny point but I like his costuming - wearing a belt makes him look less 'boxy' than last year. The only critique I have is he needs to 'reach out' to the audience and involve them more in his programs. That might help his PCS in the long run.

[aftershocks]

... Aww Ross, that was somewhat of a bad competition for him. Yes he had decent LP, but 8 place in the SP? No quad? He needs to turn it around in his next event.


Ross Miner: C...

I do not think this was at all a "bad" competition for Ross. Every competition is a learning experience. And Ross surely learned a lot, and he definitely bounced back in the fp. Ross has been training very hard and he made the effort to put the quad out there in both sp and fp. So what that his efforts re the quad did not pan out in his GP debut this season! If you don't at least start with trying to put the quad in, then it will never happen. Ross tried and he has been successful in practice, so it will come in competition. I would give Ross a B-.

As far as I'm concerned the judges under-rated Ross in the sp because several guys placed in front of Ross in the sp also made similar errors. Gachinski should have been behind Ross in the sp. Ross was likely also hurt re judges' scoring by having to skate early in the sp. Amodio and Ten were given the benefit of the doubt in the sp due to their Worlds 2012 rankings perhaps. I think Ten deserves higher PCS than Ross overall, but Amodio, not so much. Balde skated clean in the sp and deserved to be a bit ahead of Ross there, but Balde is not as polished a skater as Ross (and I don't believe Balde included a quad in his sp, did he?).

Ross has always been very "watchable." I've always found him to be entertaining and consistent, as well as resilient. He is obviously still developing all aspects of his skating, and he does need to continue working particularly on his presentation skills. But he's going in the right direction. He had good programs last season, and even better ones this season. Great Tom Dickson choreo. I like both of Ross' costumes too. I'd like to see him develop his "swashbuckling" character a bit more in his fp. But it isn't easy to manage all the technical requirements today and demonstrate spot-on artistry -- it comes with time, and slow and steady will win the race. I really love the way Mark and Peter guide their skaters. They are very professional, top-notch coaches!

[Vagabond]

I think Ross Miner knows a lot about how to connect with the audience.

One of the things I like the most about his skating is that his style is very much his own. And he's got some of the best skating skills among the U.S. men.

Now get out there land that quadruple salchow!

[olympic]

My earlier post was in regards to Ross's LP. Now, I did go back and watch Ross's SP from SC and found it to be quite good despite the errors. I felt that the SP really 'reached out' to the audience, but I didn't get that same impression from the LP. I will say that everything else clicks for me and you're right Vagabond, I hope he gets out there and lands the 4S. The 3x's are like clockwork thus far. That's a good start!

[aftershocks]

I think Ross Miner knows a lot about how to connect with the audience.

One of the things I like the most about his skating is that his style is very much his own. And he's got some of the best skating skills among the U.S. men.

Now get out there land that quadruple salchow!

What did you link to? The video has been removed.

I do really enjoy watching Ross because he's an excellent skater and he always seems to be enjoying his performances. It was very courageous of him not to stop skating when his pants strap came loose at 4CCs. I'm looking forward to seeing him further develop his new fp, and also land those quads in competition.

[love_skate2011]

off the hook.
now its up to go to Keegan Messing and Dornbush

[orbitz]

It was very courageous of him not to stop skating when his pants strap came loose at 4CCs.

I don't understand why the referee doesn't automatically stop the program when a guy's pant strap becomes loose. Just err on the safe side and stop the freaking program for the skater's safety.

[Vagabond]

What did you link to? The video has been removed.

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...hTv_5sw#t=309s

[kwanfan1818]

I don't understand why the referee doesn't automatically stop the program when a guy's pant strap becomes loose. Just err on the safe side and stop the freaking program for the skater's safety.

And his partner's.

[aftershocks]

^^ Ross doesn't have an on-ice partner of course. But I know what you mean. Possibly, had it happened to a male pairs skater, the referee or the skaters themselves might have stopped the performance because of the danger on pair elements. However, I suppose stopping a program is usually a last resort depending upon the circumstances involved.

[kwanfan1818]

Sorry -- I had too many windows open and thought we were talking about a pairs skater

[pinky166]

Looking at the scores so far this season...it really doesn't seem out of the realms of possibility that Aaron, Messing, and Farris could be on the podium at Nationals this year. The scores they've posted and jumps they've landed thus far this season serve to back them up. Adam is still having 3a problems judging from his China SP, Ross and Jeremy aren't consistent with their quads yet, Armin didn't get great PCS at SA, Johnny is definitely rusty, and internationally Razzano is still clearly regarded as a 2nd or 3rd tier American man. I wouldn't be surprised if these 3 and Dornbush comprised the podium at Nationals, at least, if the event was to be judged fairly.

[icellist]

I think so far, Dornbush and Farris have been the best of the US men this season. As of now, I hope those 2 go to worlds.

[pinky166]

I think so far, Dornbush and Farris have been the best of the US men this season. As of now, I hope those 2 go to worlds.

I agree, but I wonder even if Farris medals at Nationals, if he will just be sent to JW again, as he'd be a favorite to win there and if he were to go to Worlds he'd be making his senior international debut there, and with spots for the Olympic team on the line, the USFS might feel better about sending a more experienced skater instead. Of course, Dornbush made his senior international debut at Worlds in 2011 and skated quite well there, but the situation was less stressful/pressure inducing in that it wasn't the season before the Olympics, there were 3 men on the team instead of 2, given the team I don't think many expected 3 spots to be maintained regardless of how well the men skated, and including quads in your programs wasn't as important to place well.

On the other hand though, I do wish he'd get sent to Worlds (or 4CC) if his placement at Nationals would warrant it, because that would indicate he'd be a contender to make the Sochi Olympic team in which case it would be beneficial to go senior before the season of the Olympics.

Probably a moot point anyways, I just more don't see the value in favoring someone like Rippon or Miner when some of these younger guys show they can score comparably, if not better, already, have displayed a greater aptitude for landing difficult jumps like quads and 3a-3t, have shown improvement and can be expected to continue to improve into the future, and have the advantage of being at a good age for both the 2014 and 2018 Olympics. Abbott is somewhat different because he has the potential to score well and be a contender for medals while none of the other men currently really have a shot, but based on the way he usually performs and scores, and considering his age and lack of a consistent quad, the outlook is somewhat similar.

I mostly feel like Abbott, Weir, Rippon, Miner are unlikely to improve at this point, with the exception of maybe Ross, who I find a little too bland to really be a medal contender ever - though others may disagree, and any jump and/or consistency issues are likely to remain, or at least not improve/be corrected dramatically, until they retire, so it sort of seems like a no brainer to invest in some of these younger guys (Farris, Messing, Aaron and even Ricky because he's been having a lot of success with his 4t recently) who can score comparably already and have more time and better odds to improve any issues they currently have (although in general they seem to have less technique issues and better jumps/technical abilities than those I mentioned before). Anyone else feel the same way?

[merrywidow]

I think Ross has the potential to score well internationally if he begins to land his quad. His strength is his consistency & he is such a smooth skater. I like the idea of Dornbush & Aaron medaling at US Nationals too...maybe this year.

[pinky166]

To me Messing and Farris have a lot more going for them artistically than Ross at this point. Ross is consistent and a good technician but he's lacking wow or it factor IMO. Aaron is sort of the same way but he's an even stronger technician and younger so I have more hope that he can develop artistry compared to Ross. Keegan is very dynamic and engaging and Josh has the elegant, romantic vibe going for him in his skating. Idk, maybe Ross will surprise me and really step it up in terms of artistry, he is very smooth as you have said, I also wonder if my opinion of him has to do with his programs, which for the past few seasons I've found to be lacking in oomph/impact.

[Alex Forrest]

I finally just got around to Johnny at Finlandia. I thought he skated the best I've ever seen, obviously not considering the jumps. This program to me shows a more mature Johnny, more attack and passion, less princessy and fakey. I was prepared to be unimpressed and stop after a minute or two, but he had my attention the whole time. Hopefully he'll get more solid on his jumps, but he has a great program for sure. Whether it will win over the judges' hearts at Nats is another story, but good for him.

[aftershocks]

... Probably a moot point anyways, I just more don't see the value in favoring someone like Rippon or Miner when some of these younger guys show they can score comparably, if not better, already, have displayed a greater aptitude for landing difficult jumps like quads …

I mostly feel like Abbott, Weir, Rippon, Miner are unlikely to improve at this point, with the exception of maybe Ross, who I find a little too bland to really be a medal contender ever - …

Uhmmm, I think U.S. fans should just wake up and smell the roses and stop over-analyzing. Yes, I agree it is often fun to predict and to discuss personal perspectives and dish about favorites. I'm guilty of overdoing that too. Still, I'm hoping to do my best to try and just root for and enjoy the skaters I love and be happy for the skaters who perform their best and medal.

I don't think anyone should be "favored" over anyone else. Let them all compete and judge them fairly on the basis of all factors that are in play, which include international experience, maturity, strength of choreography and performances, strength of all-around athleticism and artistic skills (since both qualities combined will be needed to do well on the international stage). May the best men win.

From my personal perspective, if they all perform well and have success in landing their quads, it will be a toss-up between Jeremy, Johnny, (Evan if he returns), Richard, Ross, and Adam for making the U.S. Worlds team. Sure enough that Keegan, Joshua, Armin and possibly Carriere, Aaron and Razzano will all be in the running for medals -- chiefly bronze and pewter, IMHO.

IMO, no matter how well Keegan, Joshua, Aaron, and Armin perform, I think it is unlikely that they will end up on the Worlds team simply because they don't have top senior international experience and recognition, much less reputation. The U.S. needs to send two guys to 2013 Worlds who can bring back three spots for the 2013 - 2014 season. That's why I believe the team may consist of one veteran (such as Jeremy, Johnny, Evan) and one experienced up-and-comer (such as Richard, Ross, Adam). Sure if Keegan performs both programs superbly and brings down the house, he has an outside chance of making the team (because of his performance abilities, charisma, and his improvements this season), but I doubt that Aaron would be able to make the team, and I think the consensus is that Joshua is young enough to still have time and so they probably won't risk rushing him.

I think Ross has the potential to score well internationally if he begins to land his quad. His strength is his consistency & he is such a smooth skater. I like the idea of Dornbush & Aaron medaling at US Nationals too...maybe this year.

ITA re your assessment of Ross. I also think Dornbush has an excellent chance of making the World team should he perform to his capabilities at Nationals. Even should Aaron perform more consistently and show artistic improvement, I doubt he would make the World team, but he definitely has a chance to compete for a lesser medal.

Again, no matter how much we speculate and over-analyze, the results will occur as they happen in real time.

[olympic]

I think the leading US men at this point are Dornbush, Miner and Abbott w/ Messing and Aaron waiting in the wings.

[aftershocks]

...Adam is still having 3a problems judging from his China SP... I wouldn't be surprised if these 3 and Dornbush comprised the podium at Nationals, at least, if the event was to be judged fairly.

Not clear who you mean by "these 3." Also re Adam's 3axel at CoC sp, I heard his coach Rafael say to him in the kiss 'n cry: "You forgot to check..." in reference to the 3axel, which Adam appeared to fully rotate but landed two-footed and fell. However, it seemed to me that Adam's takeoff on the 3axel was much more aggressive and technically sound (and not hesitant like it was last season). Therefore, it seems he needs to fine tune technical aspects on landing, i.e., checking properly.

When Adam first debuted in seniors he was landing 3axels routinely without any problems. Perhaps his technique was not solid though, and when he later switched coaches to Orser and eventually began to lose confidence, likely his 3axel began to suffer a bit due to lack of solid technique which added to increasing loss of confidence and the problem began to snowball.

Adam seems on the right track now with Rafael Arutunian. I wish Adam lots of good luck in his CoC fp.