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  1. #21
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    IIRC, Tiffany started her senior career w/ a 3f, 3t, 3s.

    That went to a 3s and 3t,

    Then fell further to the point where she could only do a 3t by '86 worlds.

    I think all of her triples were gone by '87.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    IIRC, Tiffany started her senior career w/ a 3f, 3t, 3s.

    That went to a 3s and 3t,

    Then fell further to the point where she could only do a 3t by '86 worlds.

    I think all of her triples were gone by '87.
    Sad.

    But I believe Chin landed a 3t/2t in the short program at the 1987 National Championships in Tacoma. The funny thing is, had Tonya Harding placed ahead of Caryn Kadavy at that event (after Kadavy blew the short program), Chin would have gone to Worlds instead of Caryn.

  3. #23
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    Tiffany never had a solid 3s technique. It was very swing-y after the 3 turn. She fell on it at 83 Nationals, landed it at 84 Olympics (did she fall out of it at Nationals? ), doubled and popped it at 85 Nationals and Worlds, landed an under-rotated one at 86 Nationals and had to put a hand down at 86 Worlds.

    Tiffany's only reliable triple was the toe.

  4. #24
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    I want to know who taught Tiffany Chin her axel. The toe takeoff, the lift, she seriously could have made 3axel her money jump along with her 3toe. And yeah, when she no longer weighed 88 pounds she never could get that lift on her salchow.

    I am not a fan of 1986 Worlds. As much as I liked Debi Thomas, she had the whole black thing, the premed thing, the Stanford thing, but her performance was not very great. Caryn Kadavy was far more elegant and the heir apparent, until she showed her competitive brain was made of silly putty. I think Caryn and Nikodinov share some DNA. They always f'd themselves when it was 'their turn'.
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  5. #25
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    Slightly OT -

    Jill Trenary: She blasted onto the National scene in '87, but wasn't she a serious contender for the '86 team? I seem to recall a puff piece during '87 Nats that Jill had been one-to-watch-out-for leading up to '86 Nats, but suffered a serious injury beforehand. IDK. We're talking about Tiffany fading. I wonder if a healthy Jill would've made '86 Worlds as #3 US gal ... and the team would've been the same 3 years in a row: 1986 - 88

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Slightly OT -

    Jill Trenary: She blasted onto the National scene in '87, but wasn't she a serious contender for the '86 team? I seem to recall a puff piece during '87 Nats that Jill had been one-to-watch-out-for leading up to '86 Nats, but suffered a serious injury beforehand. IDK. We're talking about Tiffany fading. I wonder if a healthy Jill would've made '86 Worlds as #3 US gal ... and the team would've been the same 3 years in a row: 1986 - 88
    Interesting.

    Jill collided with another skater and that skater's blade tore Jill's calf muscle to the bone. She was expected to walk with a limp but with exhaustive physiotherapy, came back even stronger.

    The skater standing between Jill in 5th and Tiffany in 3rd in 1986 was Tracy Damigella (sp?). She was a very good athlete who had fast jump and spin rotation but often two footed her triple jumps. As a side note, she skated at the National Championships in Australia one year and took the title.

  7. #27
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    Didn't Damigella also skate pair for few years? Was she part Australian? I remember watching her take spin lessons from Mr. Lussi in some documentary on PBS years ago.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Caryn Kadavy was far more elegant and the heir apparent, until she showed her competitive brain was made of silly putty. I think Caryn and Nikodinov share some DNA. They always f'd themselves when it was 'their turn'.
    I think Nikodinov was worst. Caryn had falls or almost always doubled the last 3t, but she never really gave up on the entire program like Angela did after a mistake.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    I think Nikodinov was worst. Caryn had falls or almost always doubled the last 3t, but she never really gave up on the entire program like Angela did after a mistake.
    Caryn has a world medal to her credit, too. Unfortunately, Angela never made it that far ...

  10. #30
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    I dont think Angela ever had much chance regardless. She had the misfortune to come in at a time loaded with U.S stars, both Kwan, and an assortment of baby ballerinas and young phenoms (Lipinski, Cohen, Hughes, Meissner, briefly Nam). She was always kind of just lost in the shuffle. I cant think of a year she could have even made the Olympic Team TBH. Maybe she could have won the bronze at the 2001 Worlds had she duplicated her Nationals performance, it is hard to say, especialy when Sarah skated much worse at Nationals and still beat her. She would have had to medal at those Worlds to give herself even a fighting shot of the 2002 team though.

    Caryn had lots of opportunities. Chance to win Nationals in 1986, could have won atleast silver at the 87 Worlds had she done her last 2 jumps she popped open, had a chance of winning Nationals again in 1988. She did go on to have an amazing pro career after her unfulfilled amateur career though.

  11. #31
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    Monday morning quarterbacking IMO. Angela had a good shot at both 98 and certainly 02 Olys. Yeah, Bobek and Tonia would both be hard to beat, but both were also notoriously inconsistent with plenty of meltdowns on their resumes, so 98 would have been tough but not impossible. 99, 00, and 01 world teams were all there easily within her grasp, and she in fact made 2 of the 3 teams. 02 Cohen had only 00 nats to her credit, a terrible back injury and a horrible comeback at 01 SA. Sorry Angela, but you simply were out-skated at both events.

  12. #32
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    As it was though Bobek did skate very well at the 98 Nationals and Cohen and Hughes did skate very well at the 2002 Nationals. If one of them had screwed up in a big way she had a shot to make it had she skated very well but that didnt happen.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulu View Post
    Thanks for the videos. When it comes to G&G I prefer their later programs, especially their pro numbers, but even at that young age their unison was quite impressive. Oh, let me just state the obvious, Katia Gordeeva is simply adorable. Her smile is absolutely infectious.

    Just watch Debi Thomas' exhibition. Studying pre-med & keeping up her training as an elite skater? I'm impressed.
    watching those links led me to watching the 'my sergei' documentary.. made me cry all over again.. my all time favourite pair team lol.. glad Katia was able to move forward with her life..
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Monday morning quarterbacking IMO. Angela had a good shot at both 98 and certainly 02 Olys. Yeah, Bobek and Tonia would both be hard to beat, but both were also notoriously inconsistent with plenty of meltdowns on their resumes, so 98 would have been tough but not impossible. 99, 00, and 01 world teams were all there easily within her grasp, and she in fact made 2 of the 3 teams. 02 Cohen had only 00 nats to her credit, a terrible back injury and a horrible comeback at 01 SA. Sorry Angela, but you simply were out-skated at both events.
    Well, I would have had Nikodinov WIN the LP at 97 Nats. She had far more elegance than Lipinski, and she jumped and spun well. Who knows where that would have placed her had she won. Everyone seemed to be so happy that Bobek flounced and bounced and flutzed and deluded her fans thinking she was back. 1997 was the year that Nikodinov should have gone first to Worlds. Fassi might still be alive had he been back in Arrowhead training a misguided Bobek during that time. Instead he goes to this competition at altitude with Bobek who has NO chance, since she's basically a feck up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qKyUKtxoU

    This is one of the few performances I always seem to find myself Youtubing. Oppegard did such a great job in getting a passive loner to get into character. IMO it still stands up.

    Caryn Kadavy was a mystery in the 80s. Debi could move and had great ability, but Caryn was extra special. She gave up and would double and single everything after two minutes, if not before. And that's when she trained at altitude. Caryn and Angela must have had the same therapist because they were screwed.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 09-23-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    watching those links led me to watching the 'my sergei' documentary.. made me cry all over again.. my all time favourite pair team lol.. glad Katia was able to move forward with her life..
    I have so much respect for Katia. Apart from the fact that she & Sergei were phenomenal pairs skaters (check out their footwork sequence in their SP ), apart from the fact that after losing her husband & skating partner, she went on to become a great singles skater, just the fact that she's skated at an elite level since she was 13/14 years old is incredible

    My favorite performance & program though is by Selezneva & Makarov. Thanks to watching their performances on youtube, this team (along with B&S) are my favorite pair team after M&D. They were so voidy. The sbs jumps, throws, "flip-out" dismount-I have no idea what to call it , all top-notch.

    I like V&V's choreography & maturity, their program is lovely.

    Okay, hypberbolic gushing over pairs over...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Caryn Kadavy was a mystery in the 80s. Debi could move and had great ability, but Caryn was extra special. She gave up and would double and single everything after two minutes, if not before. And that's when she trained at altitude. Caryn and Angela must have had the same therapist because they were screwed.
    debi was never given any benefit of doubt. The mid 80s were ruled by the Sasha Cohen of the time: Tiffany I'm-hyped-as-god's-gift-to-skating-but-I-can't-skate-a-clean-lp-to-save-my-life Chin.

  17. #37

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    I attended US Nationals on Long Island in 1986. Debi skated like a champion with speed, power, and high jumps. She commanded the ice. Tiffany had little bitty jumps and skated slow. Maybe this was the result of her "muscle imbalance" or the odd training she was getting. But, it was a clear difference between those two. Caryn was lovely to watch. I seem to remember she had a bit of trouble in the short program but came back strong in the long.

    Some other highlights from this Nationals were watching Yamaguchi & Galindo do SBS 3flips and win the Junior Pair title and Mark Mitchell win the Junior Men's title. I also remember seeing Paul Wylie and Tonya Harding for the first time and was very impressed.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    I want to know who taught Tiffany Chin her axel. The toe takeoff, the lift, she seriously could have made 3axel her money jump along with her 3toe.
    Tiffany started with Mabel Fairbanks, who later referred her to Janet Champion. After Janet Champion, Tiffany was led to the Jr. World Championship by Frank Carroll. She had the 3A in practice for a short time (maybe one season) after leaving Frank to skate with John Nicks.

    I'm not certain who one could credit with her Axel technique since it probably started with waltz jumps with Fairbanks and 1A with Champion. Probably only Frank and John would really know who to credit, but would probably point the finger at the other three except in their own company.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 09-24-2012 at 05:57 PM.

  19. #39
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    Chin's triple axel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE9pApU53W0

    They are so beautiful and secure! Someone mentions on the comments thread seeing her land a triple axel in practice at 1986 Nationals which is interesting. (There are also some idiots who are convinced this is only a double axel err ok!) It's strange she never tried it in competition early on especially when there was little to lose. It looks so much stronger than her triple salchow.

  20. #40

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    I think your thoughts about Tiffany are accurate, floskate.
    One of the sadder cases of "what might have been", IMO.

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