From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012

[hanca]

Someone needs to work with Lipnitskaya on her clear lack of flow. She still isn't holding her moves and is now finishing every jump and spin with a little hop because she had no momentum left. It's extremely distracting.

Kavaguti-Smirnov do the same. After every jump, instead of holding and then step forward they just hop forward as if they intended to do a combination.

[DaiKozOda]

Russian tv report on the Fed Cup (the Sochi arena is beautiful): http://www.1tv.ru/news/social/217088

Pushkash & Guerreiro article (from what I've understood it's mainly about the coaching change): http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121008/622169767.html

Article about the pairs @ the Fed Cup (I think it confirms the blogger's info that Bezmarternykh got injuried): http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121007/621974784.html

[Macassar88]

Kavaguti-Smirnov do the same. After every jump, instead of holding and then step forward they just hop forward as if they intended to do a combination.

I know - it's really annoying and breaks up the flow. If I were a judge, I'd penalize them, but sadly I'm not.

[Kasey]

Menshov has Skate America and Cup of Russia. I really like him. He is voidy, his jumps are huge and he is an older guy who keeps working like a dog and keeps getting better.
Not sure about Voronov's GP.

Voronov has Cup of China and NHK.

[julieann]

Kavaguti-Smirnov do the same. After every jump, instead of holding and then step forward they just hop forward as if they intended to do a combination.

It has more to do with the choreographer than skill because it's not every time. I don't think it breaks the flow at all as long as that's what the choreographer intended.

2009 Worlds SP
2010 Worlds FS

Also, here are the protocols from Fed Cup

[hanca]

It has more to do with the choreographer than skill because it's not every time. I don't think it breaks the flow at all as long as that's what the choreographer intended.

2009 Worlds SP
2010 Worlds FS

Also, here are the protocols from Fed Cup

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h09F...yZcWa849N5eaTA
take notice at 1:17 - after triple toe loop and at 2:16 after spin. That's exactly what Marco described Lipnitskaya is doing.

And here another program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BYMP...B653EE8B76FAA4
0:40 after their jump combination
and again at 3:04 after their axel

So in this years FS two side-by-side jump elements and in both they do it and in this years SP one side-by-side jump element and they again do it.

[caseyedwards]

So a lot of GachInskis problems were level one spins because he landed a quad and 3a's

[julieann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h09F...yZcWa849N5eaTA
take notice at 1:17 - after triple toe loop and at 2:16 after spin. That's exactly what Marco described Lipnitskaya is doing.

It has nothing to do with K/S skills as spinners or jumpers; take it up with the choreographer. It's no different then skaters who put their other foot behind them after the jump is completed. Are you suggesting they do this as a balance check? Is it more aesthetically pleasing or is it just another way the choreographer exits a skill? There aren't many creative ways out of a skill for a choreographer to come up with. But a skater should be penalized for it just because you don't like it.

[hanca]

It has nothing to do with K/S skills as spinners or jumpers; take it up with the choreographer. It's no different then skaters who put their other foot behind them after the jump is completed. Are you suggesting they do this as a balance check? Is it more aesthetically pleasing or is it just another way the choreographer exits a skill? There aren't many creative ways out of a skill for a choreographer to come up with. But a skater should be penalized for it just because you don't like it.

No, what I am suggesting is that if Kavaguti-Smirnov can do the tiny hop after all jumps and one spin this season because it is a part of their choreography, it may be that Lipnitskaya is doing it from exactly the same reason - because her choreographer designed the program that way.

[Marco]

I think Lipnitskaya is doing this to strategically cover up her lack of flow, but it has ironically highlighted the problem.

Anyone who can exit an element with flow would definitely want to show it off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...so7ipIM#t=164s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...Aux0Sf0#t=182s

[julieann]

No, what I am suggesting is that if Kavaguti-Smirnov can do the tiny hop after all jumps and one spin this season because it is a part of their choreography, it may be that Lipnitskaya is doing it from exactly the same reason - because her choreographer designed the program that way.

If that's the reasoning (and I can only guess it is since both skaters have done jumps and spins with different exits in the past) neither should be penalized for it as Macassar88 suggested.

[hanca]

If that's the reasoning (and I can only guess it is since both skaters have done jumps and spins with different exits in the past) neither should be penalized for it as Macassar88 suggested.

To be fair, not only Macassar88 finds it annoying. So do I. Why else do you think I noticed that they are doing it on all their SBS jumps this season?

[julieann]

To be fair, not only Macassar88 finds it annoying. So do I. Why else do you think I noticed that they are doing it on all their SBS jumps this season?

I still shouldn't be marked down on the score sheet, it's not an error of execution, it's a choice of choreography exit. (Peter Tchernyshev is quite the choreographer.)

I like it just as much as placing your free leg on the ice behind you or swinging it around. The fact that some people don't like it is a difference in choreography not a problem with their execution of the element.

[hanca]

I never said that I believe it should be marked down, but I do think they do it because they find it easier to build up the speed that way, which is a weakness. But not as important weakness to deduct for it. Like Yu-Na's lack of turn out in spirals. Maybe ugly, annoying, but acceptable.

My coach would not let me do that. But they can afford it because they are elite skaters.

[Macassar88]

I never said that I believe it should be marked down, but I do think they do it because they find it easier to build up the speed that way, which is a weakness. But not as important weakness to deduct for it. Like Yu-Na's lack of turn out in spirals. Maybe ugly, annoying, but acceptable.

My coach would not let me do that. But they can afford it because they are elite skaters.

Maybe no official deduction, but I'd take away points in Skating Skills since it does detract from the flow of a program

[Vash01]

Maybe no official deduction, but I'd take away points in Skating Skills since it does detract from the flow of a program

Some skaters don't lose points even due to a fall which clearly disrupts the flow of a program. IMO you are being a bit nitpicky here. It could factor into a very close competition, but normally I think it's OK to not penalize a skater for every little thing, particularly this early in a season. JMO.

[Cherub721]

Maybe no official deduction, but I'd take away points in Skating Skills since it does detract from the flow of a program

Well if flow out of a jump earns positive GOE, then the judges can simply not give them as much positive GOE if they think the skater is hopping out of the jump. In that sense, if their clean jumps are not all +3s, then perhaps it has been taken into account.... obviously, it's hard to tell which good things in a jump are being rewarded or not.

[Macassar88]

Some skaters don't lose points even due to a fall which clearly disrupts the flow of a program. IMO you are being a bit nitpicky here. It could factor into a very close competition, but normally I think it's OK to not penalize a skater for every little thing, particularly this early in a season. JMO.

Well I'd take off PE points for falls as a judge

[Tak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pufH2...eature=g-all-u
Bobrova and Soloviev FD

They fixed her camel spin so now she does the donut position that I love. Her layback is great as well.
Not sure why they only got level 2 on the twizzles - they looked fine to me
As for why their Curve Lift only got level 2, there was an issue with Bobrova getting into her position, and they didn't hold the position long enough.

Thanks for the link!

Levels aside, this looks a lot more polished than the Russian Test Skates - so they are really improving. Im sure they'll get their levels up for the GP.

This is an amazing FD for them. I like it more each time I see it. When I watched it, I was so caught up in watching them, I didnt really notice the elements - usually that's all I notice as most dancers just skate element to element - or that's what it seems like. This really creates a mood.

It's such a shame they waited so long to make a change - I can only imagine what they'd be like now if they had gone to Zhulin 2 years ago!

[Vash01]

Well I'd take off PE points for falls as a judge

I would too.