09-23-2012, 04:13 PM
Ambition, properly directed, is necessary for; and creates, the work ethic that leads to achieving great success.
It certainly applies to Michelle.
09-23-2012, 07:17 PM
Thanks for your thoughts, Garden Kitty. ITA! Michelle and many other elite skaters and other athletes (and even dancers) all go through a similar process when the careers they have pursued for so long from very young ages, come to an end. I enjoyed the interviews with Sasha as well. It was great to see her happy and focused on creating a new life for herself.
Originally Posted by Garden Kitty
You are so right re the bolded sentiment. It's wonderful seeing Michelle, Sasha, Todd Eldredge, Matt Savoie, Kurt Browning, Rohene Ward, Stephane Lambiel, Jennifer Kirk, Yuka Sato and Jason Dunjgen, Karen Kwan and Peter Oppegard, and many other former skaters whose careers I enjoyed following, finding fulfillment within and outside of the skating world.
Originally Posted by skatesindreams
ITA with Garden Kitty, kwanette, and skatesindreams. Thanks again Garden Kitty! Yes, "passionate" is one of the very evident qualities Michelle possesses that I should have included in my earlier reflections.
IMO, VietgrlTerifa, it is not a question of either/ or. Just as every human being has an ego, everyone who wants to achieve anything in this world, has to meld ambition with passion. It is the very negative connotations that Iceman dropped in to "darkly" warn about that I find OTT and also OT.
The fact that both Clay and Michelle have set and continue to set and achieve high goals in their lives obviously means they have ambition to try and reach their goals. OTOH, IMHO neither of them are driven by ego or ambition. They are driven by passion and by caring and by love for their families, their neighbors and friends, their country and the global community.
09-23-2012, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa
Also, one can be passionate in the collecting of say, vintage matchbooks. I'm not sure if they'd catch the eye of an Olympian.
From what we've heard, both Michelle and Clay are passionate AND ambitious in regards to their passion. They do something about it.
09-23-2012, 07:38 PM
When did being ambitious become a bad thing?
09-23-2012, 08:04 PM
^^ Go back and read Iceman's "dark" and dire warnings. That is where this "ambitious" discussion began. And that's also where the "negative" connotations started and were responded to.
Reading the entire thread for context might be helpful. I don't see anyone "pretending" anything either. In fact, I never said Michelle did not have ambition. I responded to Iceman's "dark side" warnings. It is not about "politics" , it is about semantics and interpretation, and understanding of what ambition means for each individual and where it comes from and what it is guided by in each individual. The discussion has worth and value, and aside from Iceman's negative and "dark" connotations, I don't think anyone is completely disagreeing with anyone. I just don't think we are all starting from the same semantic standpoint, or the same understanding and perception of who Michelle Kwan is exactly.
Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa
For those interested, here are my thoughts and perceptions:
Yes, Michelle had a dream (and therefore “ambition”) to go to at least three Olympics. Yes she talked about the dream of becoming a legend in figure skating, but I doubt even she ever had the “ambition,” nor ever realized or dreamed that she would in fact become a legend in her own time! What she did was get up every day and work hard, moment by moment through all the ups and downs and the disappointments. She had the opportunity to go to four Olympics, but was only able to compete at two, and she did not win the elusive gold medal that she dreamed of winning. She came oh so close, but that dream did not come true for her. To be very honest, IMO it is NOT "ambition" that gave Michelle her legendary status. Neither is it “ambition” that has gifted her with wonderful opportunities and abundance. It is how she responded to disappointments and remained present in her life that distinguishes her. It is because of Michelle's passion and grace, her talent and desire, her courage, her work ethic and her determination to never give up that she ended up winning nine U.S. National Championships, five World Championships, two Olympic medals (silver and bronze), and receiving 57 perfect 6.0 scores.
Most of those achievements were not things she dreamed of, nor "ambitiously" set goals to reach. As she continued winning National championships by virtue of hard work and competitive spirit, other people started pointing out to her that she had the opportunity to reach and maybe break Maribel Vinson Owen's record. Still, I don't think that was uppermost in Michelle's mind at all, until the actual Nationals where she had the opportunity to match Vinson Owen's record. I believe Michelle's mind and heart were always focused more on her Olympic dream. But the getting there was a daily process of working hard and learning how to enjoy and gain from the journey, not the destination. In the process, she ended up setting awe-inspiring records.
Beyond the numbers, it is simply how Michelle carries herself through all the ups and downs of life; it is the way her presence and her passion comes through from inside of her and touches others that makes her so admired. That is why she is a legend. And that is why she is called Kween. She is not called Kween because of her ambition. It is not simply a throwaway title, nor a fancy nickname bestowed by “crazy” ubers. Michelle is Kween because of the love, joy and admiration she inspires, and because of the example she sets.
And yes, while Michelle is of course human and imperfect, she has yet shown those who love her how it feels to fly. With her heart and her “passion” Michelle has taught us that it is still possible to soar over the rainbow even when your long held dream doesn’t come true.
Last edited by aftershocks; 09-23-2012 at 08:37 PM.
09-23-2012, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by aftershocks
I was merely responding to Garden Kitty's comment:
"The impression I've had of Michelle isn't 'ambitious' but 'passionate'."
I was just saying that Kwan does have a history of being ambitious (I fail to see how one can be successful in a competitive atmosphere like skating without being ambitious) and that it works well with her passionate nature. Which you would have read if you read my post properly where I said she was both when you said:
"IMO, VietgrlTerifa, it is not a question of either/ or."
Forgive me if I had misread your post.
09-24-2012, 03:04 AM
09-24-2012, 11:06 AM
- Rep Power
Since when did being "ambitious" become a bad thing? And in America no less?
Not to mention the presumption of the "darker side"?
Everyone whom achieves anything in life has ambitions/goals/desires. The "darker side" only deals with those whom will walk on/hold down/double cross/compromise ethics/ect...others to achieve those ambitions. Anything out of balance can become "dark", but why would that be the first thing anyone would think about?
Anyway, all the best to Michelle & Clay.
09-24-2012, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Kabooke
09-24-2012, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Kabooke
IMO, MK is a perfect example of someone who has learned how to maintain a "balance" in her life, both personally and professionally.
As I previously mentioned, I think Iceman wandered into the wrong thread.
For those interested in continuing the "ambitious" discussion in all its aspects, "dark" or otherwise, and re "American Ambition," here's a link to a new thread in PI:
09-24-2012, 03:46 PM
Why did this thread get so weird? Anywhoo-
I just checked out Vera Wang's website and I really dislike all of the wedding dresses I am looking at...
09-24-2012, 04:01 PM
09-24-2012, 04:21 PM
and where does Lysacek play into this ?
09-24-2012, 05:33 PM
09-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Oh I know the dress will be a custom dress for Michelle-I was just saying in general I really don't know who would wear any of those dresses unless you were a celebrity. I had a very beautiful wedding when I was married -and all of those dresses would have been way too "dramatic" for the event LOL. IDK if that makes sense. I cannot picture anyone wearing those style wedding dresses at any wedding I have ever been to.
Anyway-I know Michelle will have a very beautiful dress. I was just talking in general about the style of VW. I could see Michelle more in a Claire Pettibone dress.
09-24-2012, 08:12 PM
09-25-2012, 02:24 AM
While I'm a wedding dress ignoramus, I can't imagine Michelle looking anything less than stunning and radiant in any wedding gown -- even an off-the-rack J.C. Penny gown.
09-26-2012, 05:59 PM
^^ Yes, I too am certain Michelle will be beautiful in whatever gown she wears -- radiant from the inside out, just as she usually is, but especially so on her wedding day.
09-26-2012, 06:33 PM
- Rep Power
I was'nt a big fan of those one-off-shoulder strap costume VW use to make for MK so anything other than that I would be happy to see MK with but tube wedding gown? I hope not it's s overplayed. What about something classic and traditional maybe?
09-26-2012, 06:54 PM
I totally agree with you.
Originally Posted by UGG