Davis and White #14 - Better Late Than Sinatra

[jobelle]

I'm very interested to see Tessa and Scott's Carmen mostly because the discussion above about refinement, control, and "skating to the edge of the precipice" (I love that SusanM!).
We know that Tessa and Scott will keep their refinement and control but if they can bring that feeling of passion, power, and "it" (that's for you mia_joy) then it could be truly spectacular!

However, we've also seen Meryl and Charlie improve immensely in their refinement and each season their unison and connection with each other improves. I still think that either team could win on any day and that (like last year) much of the deciding factor will be who can get their levels. I would have said who has the best skate on the day but as we saw at Worlds that part may not even matter as much if the levels aren't there.

[lauravvv]

V/M do have wonderfully smooth blades and always look so elegant. They are very traditional, classic ice dancers. Davis & White, OTOH, are one of a kind and take ice dance where it has never been before. It is that "skating to the edge of the precipice" feeling that makes their skating so exciting. By comparison, V-M really do feel bland to me.

I agree about classic in the sense that they have been more dancers and less drama than Meryl and Charlie (but drama, while not so much present in the early ice dancing, was very present later in the 80s, 90s and in the beginning of 2000s), although I can't say that there hasn't been any storytelling. As for traditional - their 'Pink Floyd' FD was not so traditional. And the argument that this more modern style is no good for Tessa and Scott because it was not their best season doesn't work, as the real reason for that was not the style, but rather Tessa's shin problems and the shortness of their season.

I agree that Meryl and Charlie are one of a kind in some ways, but I still can't agree that there have been many ice dancers like Tessa and Scott. One reason why it's not even possible are the totally different requirements in the old system, and the still quite different requirements in the first seasons with this system. Sure, there have been refined and elegant teams among older ice dancers, but most of them had a different style than Tessa and Scott anyway. And there have also been dramatic and expressive teams that were a bit similar to Meryl and Charlie in a way. Lastly, there are many fans who feel that Tessa and Scott are "one of a kind", despite having seen a lot of other older temas. Many fans of both teams feel that way - that their favourites are completely unique, while there are also those like me who see both special and rare qualities, as well as similarities.

Personally I like Tessa and Scott less and less every year, for different reasons, but I do understand why people might be their fans. Their skating quality is undeniable, for me they're just lacking the "IT" factor, some on ice personality maybe, some inner fire. All those things Meryl and Charlie have so much of.

Obviously, for Tessa and Scott fans they have both the "IT" factor (it has been talked about quite often), and on ice personality in spades . As for "inner fire", in some cases it may be less apparent and more "inner" than with Meryl and Charlie, but I definitely think that it's there .

Once again, I like to quote The Black Swan: "Perfection is not just about control. It's also about letting go". For me the letting go part is where Meryl and Charlie beat Tessa and Scott. Too much control becomes bland in the end.

I agree about letting go - that's what I also like in skaters (and not just skaters), but Tessa and Scott are an exception for me, as they manage to combine their control and perfection with an apparent joy of skating and their own kind of expressiveness.


Sorry, couldn't desist . I guess, it was inevitable after I started this.

[lauravvv]

I'm very interested to see Tessa and Scott's Carmen mostly because the discussion above about refinement, control, and "skating to the edge of the precipice" (I love that SusanM!).
We know that Tessa and Scott will keep their refinement and control but if they can bring that feeling of passion, power, and "it" (that's for you mia_joy) then it could be truly spectacular!

I think that most Meryl and Charlie fans won't like what they will do anyway. Especially because they (to be exact, Tessa) have said that they are going to tell the story more through body movement/dance than through facial expressions (although Scott has quite much of it anyway , while Tessa usually has less of it), and many tend to see passion more in facial expressions than in body movement. Also, I think their passion is going to be more of the partially hidden, simmering just under the surfice kind (as it has already been), than the totally outward kind, which, again, is usually noticed by more people.

However, we've also seen Meryl and Charlie improve immensely in their refinement and each season their unison and connection with each other improves.

I agree absolutely.

[iNap]

Sorry, couldn't desist . I guess, it was inevitable after I started this.

Look like you are V-M fan who want to convert D-W fan to your team. Why waste time? Trying in polite ways do no good Maybe tread title change confuse you

[circuscandy]

For me, the difference between the two teams reminds me of the difference between Gordeeva/Grinkov and Mishkutenok/Dmitriev in pairs. Both were Olympic champions. It came down to which style was preferred, and, I guess, which direction one wanted pairs skating to go.

Absolutely. This is exactly it. And exactly the reason why wins are a toss-up, depending almost solely on snagging levels, even when one of the teams has a "weaker" piece.

For me, a huge part of why I love Meryl and Charlie over Tessa and Scott is that I tend to like raw power laced with a bit of refinement. I like speed, I like big, sweeping movements. I like to sit on the edge of my seat. (I also like them better just aesthetically. I think they are a fabulous couple to look at. There's a great contrast between them. Meryl all porcelain with her dark hair, and Charlie's wild, blond curls.)

Scott's attitude really made it almost impossible for me to get real joy while watching them last season. And while on ice, he often comes off as a little comical to me. Like he's trying too hard. With Tessa I believe it. I think the WTT debacle really shined a light on some of my issues. I had so much secondhand embarrassment going on... Yikes.

But despite my critiques, it is still like splitting hairs and I do fully understand why people love one team over the other. I will NEVER say that one team is worse than the other. I feel they are utterly matched for talent. It just comes down to taste.

[lauravvv]

Look like you are V-M fan who want to convert D-W fan to your team. Why waste time? Trying in polite ways do no good Maybe tread title change confuse you

No, that was not my intention. I know that it's useless . It started when, in response to some post, I told when/how I came to like Tessa/Scott and Meryl/Charlie, and explained why I like Tessa and Scott a bit more. Then people responded to that with their opinions and feelings about both teams, and I, in turn, felt a need to respond to that (of course) . That's all.

[zilam98]

Look like you are V-M fan who want to convert D-W fan to your team. Why waste time? Trying in polite ways do no good Maybe tread title change confuse you

oh pani, why even bother reversing your name?

[missysays]

Cute article about skaters and memories of their first day at school...

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

Meryl Davis: I remember the smells of my first day of school very vividly. I went to preschool at my family's church. When I go back, even now, I am reminded of that first day of school. If my nose and memory serve me correctly, it was a combination of old wood and graham crackers -- a very comforting combination, if I do say so myself.

Charlie White: I rode the bus for the first time on my first day of school. So, at the end of the day when I was riding the bus back home, I was so tired from the full day of school that I fell asleep at the back of the bus and didn't wake up until the bus had pulled into the school bus parking lot for the night; it was a horrible experience.

Poor Charlie!!

[iNap]

No, that was not my intention. I know that it's useless . It started when, in response to some post, I told when/how I came to like Tessa/Scott and Meryl/Charlie, and explained why I like Tessa and Scott a bit more. Then people responded to that with their opinions and feelings about both teams, and I, in turn, felt a need to respond to that (of course) . That's all.

V-M toss coin every year and made program for latin or romance. Coin have only two sides

[Jessiebanana]

OMG I can't even begin to tell you guys how excited I am for Notre Dame now that everyone started posting links to those beautiful songs. And Meryl's tweet... I mean, I love A/P's take on Danse mon Esmeralda, but it's been so long and if someone is capable of pulling off a fresh and just as wonderful version of it, it's Meryl and Charlie.

Can't wait to see it, I have a feeling it's gonna be another stunner

Better late than Sinatra indeed.

You took the words out of my mouth! This is going to be perfect for them.

[Jessiebanana]

I will always like Virtue and Moir's skating. I'm no longer a fan of both teams simply because of Scott's off ice behavior. Being a fan for me implies a personal connection, I can't have a positive personal connection with a skating team who I can't like. Scott's not the devil or anything, bad sportsmanship is hardly the end all be all, but I love how well rounded and nice Davis and White seem to be. It makes it easy, also I tended to push for them being the underdog and it didn't help that I hated V/M program last year...not so much the music, but the actual choreography...or lack thereof. It was too basic for their talent.

As for Carmen...it is what it is. Maybe their refinement will bring a new spin. It's typically done a bit OTT except maybe with Michelle Kwan. I think most of us thought after last year they'd step it up to make up for it and that's why everyone is so disappointed with Carmen.

Either way at the end of the day I APPRECIATE the hell out of both teams. People speak of the great ice dancers of the past, but tbh as an actual on the floor dancer I couldn't tolerate the lack of athleticism and line in old school ice dancers. It seemed to me to be a lot of questionable movements and dramatic costumes that all sort of managed to look the same after a while. I thank both of these teams and the transitioning teams that lead up to these two.

[lauravvv]

V-M toss coin every year and made program for latin or romance. Coin have only two sides

You're much more of a pot stirer here than me or anyone else (which is not anything new, of course). I haven't read comments like your mock one in a long time here. But, fine, if you want - I must say that so far there has been only one latina, and much more romance, if we are talking about FDs. And the romance has been of different kinds. Plus, 'Pink Floyd' and 'Funny Face' wasn't even all romance - only the more extreme Meryl/Charlie ubers could ignore that. Not to mention the different types of movement that they have used in their dances. Besides, haven't most Meryl and Charlie's FDs also been romance of this or that sort? But it's not like I have ever blamed them for that, as I don't see that as a flaw.

I think I'll stop now even if you don't want to - otherwise we are going to pollute this thread so that it will become an unpleasant place for it's rightful inhabitants. And that I don't wish.

[lauravvv]

Being a fan for me implies a personal connection, I can't have a positive personal connection with a skating team who I can't like. Scott's not the devil or anything, bad sportsmanship is hardly the end all be all, but I love how well rounded and nice Davis and White seem to be.

I guess, to be a real fan I too have to like or at least be intrigued by the personality. Still, some flaws/bad traits as a person can't stop me from liking what that person does on ice/stage.

.....and it didn't help that I hated V/M program last year...not so much the music, but the actual choreography...or lack thereof. It was too basic for their talent.

I can't agree at all. 'Funny Face' was my least favorite of Tessa and Scott's FDs, although I still liked it, but that was because of the overall style, not because of choreography. I think the choreography was fine for the style, and quite detailed. Although it became less detailed when in the middle of the season they took a few bits out in order to add more transitions.

[iNap]

I guess, to be a real fan I too have to like or at least be intrigued by the personality. Still, some flaws/bad traits as a person can't stop me from liking what that person does on ice/stage.

I can't agree at all. 'Funny Face' was my least favorite of Tessa and Scott's FDs, although I still liked it, but that was because of the overall style, not because of choreography. I think the choreography was fine for the style, and quite detailed. Although it became less detailed when they took a few bits out in order to add more transitions in the middle of the season.

So you are V-M ultra uber. You came here to stir pot. I just show you where your pot is so you can go stir over there It is in safe V-M tread. You are not going to change D-W fan because we like them for different reason.


I hope Marina let Charlie keep his hair this season. Hope we here full announcement soon from icenetwork. I have feeling Meryl will be so greate as Esmeralda. She have such unique look will be perfect for this role.

[Jessiebanana]

It is isn't just the nice. It's the goofy, the open awkwardness, and for a nerd like me I love that Meryl is so bright and passionate about her education. Like I said...it doesn't stop me from liking V/M skating. I will always like their skating. They are very talented and I wish they went the Pink Floyd root more. They're good at modern and that's an almost unexplored territory in ice dance.

You don't have to agree with me, but I think a lot of V/M fans hated the choreography. Obviously they got the levels in the requirements, but the elements in between and the the difficulty in timing to the music wasn't anywhere near their past programs or DF. It was the type of choreography you might expect for a new team. They could have made FF less cutesy, there's quite a bit more to FF than that, but they didn't and I'll never know why. It was obviously very important to Tessa.

[Susan M]

I'm very interested to see Tessa and Scott's Carmen mostly because the discussion above about refinement, control, and "skating to the edge of the precipice" (I love that SusanM!).

Actually, I was saying Meryl & Charlie skate to the edge of the precipice - taking everything to the max. Sometime their edges get so deep, I'm afraid they will fall over. Tessa & Scott skate in a very contained style and don't skate with that same amplitude.

I tend to like raw power laced with a bit of refinement.

That's what I find so impressive about D-W. It sometimes looks like raw power, but they are totally in control.

[Theatregirl1122]

You're much more of a pot stirer here than me or anyone else (which is not anything new, of course). I haven't read comments like your mock one in a long time here. But, fine, if you want - I must say that so far there has been only one latina, and much more romance, if we are talking about FDs. And the romance has been of different kinds. Plus, 'Pink Floyd' and 'Funny Face' wasn't even all romance - only the more extreme Meryl/Charlie ubers could ignore that. Not to mention the different types of movement that they have used in their dances. Besides, haven't most Meryl and Charlie's FDs also been romance of this or that sort? But it's not like I have ever blamed them for that, as I don't see that as a flaw.

I think I'll stop now even if you don't want to - otherwise we are going to pollute this thread so that it will become an unpleasant place for it's rightful inhabitants. And that I don't wish.

It's best to just ignore trolls no matter how many personas they may have.

[mollymgr]

Wow, we have our own pet troll now. I don't know whether to laugh or cry

[lauravvv]

So you are V-M ultra uber. You came here to stir pot. I just show you where your pot is so you can go stir over there It is in safe V-M tread. You are not going to change D-W fan because we like them for different reason.

No, I am not a Virtue/Moir uber, but I like them a lot. I think I am not anyone's uber, and Stephane Lambiel is the only skater whose true fan I am . The pot stirring from me was unintentional - I didn't even come here for that. I came to read about Meryl and Charlie and their dances/music. As I already wrote, I don't hope to change Davis/White fans, as it's useless, just as it would be useless to try and change Virtue/Moir fans.

[jobelle]

Actually, I was saying Meryl & Charlie skate to the edge of the precipice - taking everything to the max. Sometime their edges get so deep, I'm afraid they will fall over. Tessa & Scott skate in a very contained style and don't skate with that same amplitude.


That's what I find so impressive about D-W. It sometimes looks like raw power, but they are totally in control.

I know. I meant that if Tessa and Scott brought the same quality it would really be incredible when combined with what they already do well.