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  1. #481

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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I know, that's why I said "just for fun." I do think it's very interesting that V/M almost did not win the SD. Yes their program could get stronger as the season goes on, but so could C/L's?
    Whether C/L's Carmen improves or not (which I think it will), I still like it better as a whole.

    ETA: I realized you probably were talking about the SD. C/L skated that SD very well and it probably won't get much better, though. It's a great SD for them, I thought their speed in the SD was better than the FD but maybe it was just the music helping it along.

    Have to at some of the comments over in pbp, I love how anonymous posters on a skating forum think their opinions are superior to those of professional writers who apparently don't know what they are talking about.
    MERYL DAVIS AND CHARLIE WHITE - 2014 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!

  2. #482

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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I do think it's very interesting that V/M almost did not win the SD. Yes their program could get stronger as the season goes on, but so could C/L's?
    I understand, hence it is difficult to tell whose apple or orange is better at this point and where it will be come World's. I do agree with this statement because it was the same competition. But it is really quite early to tell. All the Canton teams seem to have been plagued with technical problems since last season. It remains to be seen who improves and by how much.
    I think D/W have work to do on both programs.

  3. #483
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    I think that both D/W's and V/M's FD will do a lot of evolving and that neither were even close too 100% out of the gate. V/M's Carmen seems pretty ambitious, like D/W's Notre-Dame, and both skates lacked the smoothness that shows off muscle memory in competition. They both need to make tweaks and to settle into the programs. That's my opinion after watching both. (Also, I think Tessa has a costume issue, mostly to do with color, just like Meryl.)

    Clearly the judges do not hate any of the programs, SD or FD--they gave high PCS scores across the board. There are some technical glitches all over the place and that's what the real problem was. It seems we're going to have a super close head-to-head battle this year with no team at a clear advantage and no overtly "weaker" program as far as audience interest is concerned. Should make for some fantastic match ups when they go head-to-head. Gotta love this rivalry.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~tapdancer~ View Post
    Have to at some of the comments over in pbp, I love how anonymous posters on a skating forum think their opinions are superior to those of professional writers who apparently don't know what they are talking about.
    I find that happens on a lot of forums.

  5. #485
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    Does anyone think that V/M is suffering from the enormous pressure of being the "world's most decorated ice skaters" - this was from the commentator at the event. With so many people and almost the whole country behind you, it must be hard to top yourself each time. I can imagine the huge burden on them...

    Now for the FD, I didn't like D/W's FD at first, thought it was kind of lacklustre towards the second half before the big finale and the step sequences looked too familiar, ie what they've always done save for some small flourishes here and there, so I was worried. But after watching it a few more times, I love it! This program has great potential, hope they work out all the kinks and really nail that connection

    Er, slightly off topic here, did anyone see hubbell and donahue? Their FD has some brilliant choreography and they are such lovebirds! Sorry to talk about other couple in D/W thread...

  6. #486

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    I also loved Hubbell/Donahue. Both their programs were wonderful and I hope they continue to improve. Love their chemistry.
    MERYL DAVIS AND CHARLIE WHITE - 2014 OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by mollymgr View Post
    I am a firm believer that a score comparison from different events means absolutely nothing. It has to be compared on the same day, under all the same conditions, under the same judges, same arena etc. All these variables could impact the score on any given day. Programs can look very different from their debut to the final rendition based on changes made from feedback throughout the season. Who knows what could happen between now and World's?
    Normally I'd agree, but I think comparisons from events where both teams are on home turf may be the comparable of all. Outside of Nationals it's where you'd expect them to have the greatest advantage.

    Also I just really dislikes V/M SD. It reminded me of their first ever SD, but without the cohesiveness. The YP was absolutely jarring in that choreography. I don't know what Marina was thinking. I'm not sure we gave Igor enough credit for his influence.

  8. #488
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    I think I actually like V/M's Carmen more than I expected I would. Makes the music seem less boring as well. I also think the modern elements smooth over the music transitions. Their music doesn't have to be as cohesive as D/W's this year. They aren't telling a story as much and Tessa isn't Carmen. They're abstracting the feeling and interpreting the music more than Carmen as a whole. I'm also not put off by the sexual overtones...why not? They can do it believably and I don't think ice dance should have a family friendly requirement, despite what Stars on Ice advertises. It's art, let it be art to a TV acceptable extent (can't really have closed session competitions :p). I'm also a uber for more modern movement on the ice and I pretty much love any team who goes there...looking at you Weaver/Poje.

    I disagree that D/W and V/M fans have an equal distribution of nasty ubers. In general we're a smaller group as well, but even taking that into account, I still don't think there is as much hate towards V/M here, not that we're more equal, but that we either keep our dislike to ourselves or don't actively think about it. Obviously I'm biased, but just looking at this thread we spend more time nuancing and criticizing the programs of D/W than we do V/M. Which suits me. I'm here to talk about D/W. I respect V/M skating and talent, but D/W are who I root for.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    I disagree that D/W and V/M fans have an equal distribution of nasty ubers. In general we're a smaller group as well, but even taking that into account, I still don't think there is as much hate towards V/M here, not that we're more equal, but that we either keep our dislike to ourselves or don't actively think about it. Obviously I'm biased, but just looking at this thread we spend more time nuancing and criticizing the programs of D/W than we do V/M. Which suits me. I'm here to talk about D/W. I respect V/M skating and talent, but D/W are who I root for.
    ITA, this thread is very respectful towards both teams and I hope we keep it that way always.

    I'm still figuring out how scores are given and I would rather learn about that and how it can be improved. So far this thread has been fantastic to learn from! Thanks to the experts for explaining

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessiebanana View Post
    [...]
    I disagree that D/W and V/M fans have an equal distribution of nasty ubers. In general we're a smaller group as well, but even taking that into account, I still don't think there is as much hate towards V/M here, not that we're more equal, but that we either keep our dislike to ourselves or don't actively think about it. Obviously I'm biased, but just looking at this thread we spend more time nuancing and criticizing the programs of D/W than we do V/M. Which suits me. I'm here to talk about D/W. I respect V/M skating and talent, but D/W are who I root for.
    I am just going to repeat my request: can we please not turn this into a battle of which group of fans/ubers is the superior one? I just don't see how it is at all productive. I understand why you take issue with some of the stuff written by some of the people belonging to the V&M thread, and I can also understand why you may feel the need to vent, but, as others have pointed out, the people engaging in that kind of behaviour are in the minority. Furthermore, many, many V&M thread regulars have explicitly expressed their disfavour for comments that are disrespectful to other teams and fans. Why should they have to share the blame for behaviour that they have gone out of their way to discourage? IMO, most of the discussion in there is respectful and very interesting, just as it is here.

    I have been reading all the posts in that thread and this one since summer 2011 (and I was an occasional visitor before then) and just off the top of my head I can tell you that one D&W uber made a comment about needing antiemetics to be able to deal with the Canadian fans at Skate Canada (I am not patriotic so it didn't bother me personally, but I can see why it would bother others), another couple of D&W ubers talked about how full of themselves both Tessa and Scott were, and a couple have come into the V&M thread just to make rude comments about V&M (one even implied that Tessa was playing up the severity of her injury) and/or condescending remarks about their fans. This is hardly behaviour I would deem respectful. Certainly, these fans are in the minority, and some people in this thread have also called them out on it, but I just wanted to show that the nastiness is not one-sided at all.

    There is an 'ignore' feature that you may find useful. You could also respond directly to those people whose posts you find offensive (I do this sometimes), you could just ignore their rude comments (I do this at other times), or report them to a moderator. But can we please not turn this into a fan war?

  11. #491
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    I wanted to express my opinion of a subject that was brought up...you can feel free to "ignore" it.

  12. #492
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    And I was providing my own opinion in response to the one you expressed by

    a)providing evidence to counter the assertion you made that a particular behaviour is exhibited most by one group of fans and

    b) using your post to discuss something that I, as a member of this thread, would prefer not to see here. As I said earlier, I can understand venting, but I think we have to be careful about posting in a way that invites people to put down another group of fans. I am suggesting that it may be more productive (and fairer) to deal with the comments you find offensive by taking it up with those who are actually responsible for them, or ignoring them, or getting a moderator involved. I am serious when I say this--I think these can be very effective ways of dealing with nasty ubers. But I would rather not see this thread flooded with comments about how horrible V&M fans or any other set of fans are. I would much rather use this thread as a space to discuss Meryl and Charlie.

  13. #493
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    Wow

  14. #494

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    Then as a member of the V&M group as well B&KFan, might I ask that you call out the D&W fan bashers & D&W bashers over there as well, when you see them, since it would not be acceptable behavior for D&W fans to do so, either in the V&M thread, or in this thread?

  15. #495
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    Wow, what has infected FSU this weekend? Every thread I read is full of vindictive posts. I am used to snarky comments about programs (and have made a few) but the snarky comments about the posting person needs to stop. The D/W thread is usually a safe haven and even it is being overtaken. One of the things I like best about this thread is that it is about Charlie and Meryl, their programs, appearances, photos etc. Can we keep it that way, please? Leave commenting on other skaters, their fans and their programs to other threads.

  16. #496
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    The more I watch D/W's SD, the more I like it. It's really well put together.

  17. #497

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    I agree. And the audience really loved it. They were clapping right along with the YP part, despite the music not being particularly familiar to everyone.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Then as a member of the V&M group as well B&KFan, might I ask that you call out the D&W fan bashers & D&W bashers over there as well, when you see them, since it would not be acceptable behavior for D&W fans to do so, either in the V&M thread, or in this thread?
    Just to clarify, I never made this claim. I am fine with calling out the people who are responsible for the rude comments in either thread (in fact, I even suggested responding to these comments and their authors as a method of dealing with the nastiness), and I am fine with venting about these comments, as long as it is done in a way that doesn't implicate people who have not engaged in this behaviour. What I am objecting to is discussing this particular behaviour as symptomatic of V&M fandom in general and/or inviting comparisons between the two fan groups in terms of nasty behaviour. And I have, on a number of occasions, called out V&M ubers for rude comments about D&W's skating and/or looks and negative speculation about their personalities. IMO, there is no place for that kind of thing in either thread.

    moving on...

    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    The more I watch D/W's SD, the more I like it. It's really well put together.
    me too! Initially, I was actually more taken by the FD (even though I much prefer the music of Giselle). But I love the lightness of the SD, and appreciate the contrast between the SD and FD. When I was imagining this program, I thought only Meryl would perform the little hops, as this, for me, is such an iconic Giselle step in her solo in Act 1, but I love that Marina has them doing them side-by-side. It is difficult enough to perform these hops (so glad Kurt pointed this out in the commentary) so to do them in unison...it is indicative of the approach they have taken with their skating this year. They are working on things that are not major point-getters (connection, line, unison), and I love that so much (and I really appreciated Tanith's comments about this). Even though it was their first outing, I thought it was apparent that their skating is more detailed. For instance, the arms are so gentle and controlled in the circular non-touching step sequence, especially at the moment in which they are right smack in front of the judges. It really highlights the music in the most delicious way. And, given their proficiency with this pattern dance, along with Meryl's affection for it, I am thrilled that they chose to make the YP section a highlight. such a lovely program.

    I am curious, what were people's favourite (hard to choose!) or most memorable moments in the SD?

  19. #499

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    Just because I like to "play" with numbers, I thought it might be interesting to see just what these two amazing dance couples put up on the board.
    Both have some levels in which they can improve upon in their SD -- especially with their lifts. D/W got -1 for an extended lift while V/M had their called a level 1 so they got the bigger ding.
    In the free, D/W have a level 2 and two elements with a level 3 so some room for improvement there. V/M got a level 2 and a leve 3 on two different elements.
    PCS are pretty close and I am guessing that V/M's were perhaps a bit lower because of their couple slipups.
    Going to be an interesting season between these two, I think.
    Meryl & Charlie Tessa & Scott
    Short Dance
    TES
    Element Base GOE Score
    STw4 6.00 1.33 7.33
    NtCiSt3 6.50 2.33 8.83
    1YP2+kpNYN 5.00 0.92 5.92
    2YP4+kpYYY 7.00 1.11 8.00
    RoLi4 4.00 1.17 5.17
    TOTAL 28.6 36.26
    PCS
    SS=9.13 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    LI=9.21 (ranges from 8.50-9.75)
    PE=9.33 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    CH=9.25 (ranges from 8.5-9.75)
    IN=9.46 (ranges from 8.75-10)
    TOTAL PCS: 37.14
    Less 1.00 for extended lift
    Short Dance total score: 71.39
    Short Dance
    TES
    Element Base GOE Score
    STw3 5.00 1.00 6.00
    NtCiSt2 5.00 2.00 7.00
    1YP3+kpYNY 6.00 1.00 7.00
    2YP2+kpYNN 5.00 .79 5.79
    RoLi1 1.50 .43 1.93
    TOTAL 27.72
    PCS
    SS=9.13 (ranges from 9.00-9.75)
    LI=9.21 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    PE=9.33 (ranges from 9-9.75)
    CH=9.25 (ranges from 9.25-9.75)
    IN=9.46 (ranges from 9-9.50)
    TOTAL PCS: 37.37
    Short Dance total score: 65.09
    Free Dance
    TES
    Element Base GOE Score
    Sp4 5.00 1.08 6.08
    RoLi4 4.00 1.5 5.50
    DiSt3 6.5 1.83 8.33
    STw3 5.00 .42 5.42
    CuLi4 4.00 .83 4.83
    CiSt2 5.00 2.00 7.00
    SIL4 4.00 .92 4.92
    RoLi4 4.00 1.33 5.33
    ChLi1 .2 .55 .75
    TOTAL 37.70 48.18
    PCS
    SS=9.38 (ranges from 8.50-9.75)
    LI=9.33 (ranges from 8.75-10)
    PE=9.50 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    CH=9.54 (ranges from 8.5-9.75)
    IN=9.63 (ranges from 8.75-10)
    TOTAL PCS: 68.73
    Free Dance total score: 104.89
    Free Dance
    TES
    Element Base GOE Score
    Sp4 5.00 1.00 6.00
    RoLi4 4.00 1.14 5.15
    DiSt2 5.00 .57 5.57
    STw4 6.00 1.00 5.00
    CuLi4 4.00 1.00 5.00
    CiSt3 6.5 1.71 8.21
    SIL4 & RoLi4 8.00 2.43 10.43
    ChLi1 .2 .66 .86
    TOTAL 38.70 48.42
    PCS
    SS=9.32 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    LI=9.14 (ranges from 8.75-9.5)
    PE=9.29 (ranges from 8.75-9.75)
    CH=9.46 (ranges from 9-9.50)
    IN=9.50 (ranges from 9-9.75)
    TOTAL PCS: 66.80
    Free Dance total score: 104.32
    TOTAL SCORE: 176.28 TOTAL SCORE: 169.41
    Last edited by professordeb; 10-29-2012 at 06:49 PM. Reason: formatting my HTML
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  20. #500
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    Thank you for taking the time to do this, professordeb! I really appreciate the effort

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