Davis and White #14 - Better Late Than Sinatra

[circuscandy]

Her hair is legend.

[literaryfreak]

For the first time ever, I woke up in time to watch D/W on the Today Show.

They talked about this season, the upcoming Olympics, and the Classroom Champions thing. They then skated to a modified version of Die Fledermaus, Meryl in the blue costume.

[TanithandBenFan]

A pic from their agent Hailey's twitter:

Celebrating @CharlieaWhite's b-day in NYC @Oceangrillnyc w/@Meryl_Davis @LaurenCRossi

http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/klvt0awj

And another one from their NYC trip:

http://twitter.yfrog.com/nw4rwdxj

[sap5]

I'm glad D/W have their PR machine going right. Hopefully they can build it up so that by Sochi, they are some of the stars the US really watches and roots for (a la Michael Phelps?). It would also be great if they revive the sport in the US! No title sponsor for Stars on Ice last year was ridiculous!

[mollymgr]

Meryl

http://twitter.com/Meryl_Davis/statu.../photo/1/large

[mollymgr]

Here is the video...
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/tod...67529#49567529

[lauravvv]

A bit late with my impressions about the FD. On the whole I do like the dance, although I still think that the music changes are too abrupt - probably they can do something about it to make them smoother. The new connection is nice, as are the many different holds. The only thing - I feel like there are too many of those little hops for Meryl. They've had them in other dances too, and they didn't bother me before, but now I am really noticing them, and it's a bit annoying. Possibly when the whole dance will become smoother, other things in there will make up for that.

[leafygreens]

I have read from V/M fans that D/W are so concerned about equaling V/M's "chemistry" that D/W are forcing themselves into fake chemistry, which is a waste of time because they will never have the natural chemistry of V/M. In return D/W are letting their technical aspects slip, when V/M's technical ability + chemistry can never be matched. It is also the opinion of some V/M fans that their Carmen program is so heads-and-tails above D/W's program that the only way D/W can win is with a catastrophic mistake by V/M.

What does everyone think about this? I'm a fan of dance but certainly not an expert to be judging nuances like this. Is it just bragging by fans or is it really something D/W need to be concerned about?

[sap5]

I think people should wait until Carmen is actually performed before saying how unbeatable it is.

[TanithandBenFan]

I have read from V/M fans that D/W are so concerned about equaling V/M's "chemistry" that D/W are forcing themselves into fake chemistry, which is a waste of time because they will never have the natural chemistry of V/M. In return D/W are letting their technical aspects slip, when V/M's technical ability + chemistry can never be matched. It is also the opinion of some V/M fans that their Carmen program is so heads-and-tails above D/W's program that the only way D/W can win is with a catastrophic mistake by V/M.

What does everyone think about this? I'm a fan of dance but certainly not an expert to be judging nuances like this. Is it just bragging by fans or is it really something D/W need to be concerned about?

Sounds like like a lot of delusional hoo-ha to me. That's exactly why I stay out of the V/M thread.

[Piper]

I have read from V/M fans that D/W are so concerned about equaling V/M's "chemistry" that D/W are forcing themselves into fake chemistry, which is a waste of time

Unfortunately, there is something about that phrase.
For me, Meryl and Charlie have always had their own special chemistry which was more from inside than outside - and I love them for this. Now, they're trying too hard to make it more "evident" - I'm not sure they need it so much.

[TanithandBenFan]

Unfortunately, there is something about that phrase.
For me, Meryl and Charlie have always had their own special chemistry which was more from inside than outside - and I love them for this. Now, they're trying too hard to make it more "evident" - I'm not sure they need it so much.

I think it's all about setting the mood of the program and maintaining the character. This year's free dance calls for a very strong emotional connection between the two of them, and I think they've just become more comfortable projecting this emotion than they have in past years. In the short dance, they display the light and fun connection as its appropriate. I like the added intensity they've brought to their free dance this year.

[suki]

"What does everyone think about this? I'm a fan of dance but certainly not an expert to be judging nuances like this. Is it just bragging by fans or is it really something D/W need to be concerned about?[/QUOTE]

I have followed skating for many years, and have been an "uber" fan of many skaters over that time (Peggy Fleming, Michelle Kwan, Klimova & Ponomerenko, G&G, M&D, to name a few). But some of the V/M ubers who post are It's too bad because I like to read what's going on in all the top skaters' camps, and the knowedgeable comments of some of the posters. But, you have to wade through the nastiness spewed against the other top ice dancing teams by the minority lunatic fringe to find them.

[Piper]

I think it's all about setting the mood of the program and maintaining the character. This year's free dance calls for a very strong emotional connection between the two of them, and I think they've just become more comfortable projecting this emotion than they have in past years. In the short dance, they display the light and fun connection as its appropriate. I like the added intensity they've brought to their free dance this year.

They also needed emotional connection in Samson and Delilah, and Phantom, and that was more than enough, IMHO. Here it's too dramatic. And if Meryl fits perfectly, like she was born for this character, Charlie definitely needs to work more.

[circuscandy]

What does everyone think about this? I'm a fan of dance but certainly not an expert to be judging nuances like this. Is it just bragging by fans or is it really something D/W need to be concerned about?

It's just the usual nastiness from some of the V/M ubers. The sort of people who spend time disliking every D/W video on YouTube and will laugh at anything they do no matter how the judges receive it. I don't know how you can enjoy skating if you loathe the other team so much that you see nothing valuable about their existence. Why would they want V/M to coast to easy victories without any triumphant victories over someone they equal? That's no fun. It just makes the field look weak.

D/W's FD is very ambitious and has a lot of new movements and holds and they were very focused on sinking into the character, probably moreso than on their technical elements. Those will easily be brought up as they settle into this program more. It's not quite to the point of muscle memory yet, I'd guess, so there's still a lot of thinking while they perform it. Same goes for every other team at the start of the season. Just think about how the tango seemed at the start of the season. I had some nightmares at the time, but now it's one of their programs that impresses me the most. Their showing at Worlds was magnificent. So complex and sharp!

I enjoy this rivalry so much and I am so happy it exists because it's doing so much for ice dance. How often do we see the Olympic champs and runners up staying neck-in-neck for the next cycle, with so much competitive fire in their bellies that you trust them to keep going and doing better and more challenging work? As a gym fan, I'd love to see that from AA champions and top AAers again!

From what I have seen of Carmen, it looks like it's definitely going to be set apart from the other Carmens that have existed. They walked the talk with that. Some of the choreography does make me wince (there's a lot of, uh, crotch... but it may not seem like that once it's all together and Tessa's in costume), but it's definitely new and innovative for them. They have their style and D/W have theirs and I appreciate both, even though I favor D/W aesthetically.

V/M and D/W seem like they're good friends, so I'm sure they'd probably not really feel comfortable with fans going off and slamming the other team. I have my issues with Scott's professionalism, but it'll be a sad day when these two teams retire.

[browning]

It's just the usual nastiness from some of the V/M ubers. The sort of people who spend time disliking every D/W video on YouTube and will laugh at anything they do no matter how the judges receive it. I don't know how you can enjoy skating if you loathe the other team so much that you see nothing valuable about their existence. Why would they want V/M to coast to easy victories without any triumphant victories over someone they equal? That's no fun. It just makes the field look weak.


I enjoy this rivalry so much and I am so happy it exists because it's doing so much for ice dance. How often do we see the Olympic champs and runners up staying neck-in-neck for the next cycle, with so much competitive fire in their bellies that you trust them to keep going and doing better and more challenging work? As a gym fan, I'd love to see that from AA champions and top AAers again!


V/M and D/W seem like they're good friends, so I'm sure they'd probably not really feel comfortable with fans going off and slamming the other team. I have my issues with Scott's professionalism, but it'll be a sad day when these two teams retire.

First off I love D/W SD this year, i am not so sure about the FD, it has potential but I'll have to wait and see. The clips I saw of V/M FD looks great and a departure for them, I am looking forward to seeing it this weekend to make a more informed decision. I enjoy D/W, and would consider myself a fan of theirs, but will admit i am a bigger fan of V/M, some might call me a V/M uber. That being said i have seen nasty remarks by v/m fan against D/W, but i have seen the same from D/W fans about V/M. I do not like it from either group of fans but reading some of the posts here there is a suggestion is that is one sided, and that is not the case. In that way i disagree with what you said, because it is really not that more common for fans of V/M to be nasty as you suggested in your post, I agree there are some nasty ones but that can be said for any group of fans of particular skater(s).

I do totally agree it will be a sad day for ice dance when either team retires and i will miss both teams when that day happens.

[DFJ]

I do totally agree it will be a sad day for ice dance when either team retires and i will miss both teams when that day happens.

I'm a V/M fan but I hope these teams stay on the ice for a long time -- they are both fabulous.

[circuscandy]

In that way i disagree with what you said, because it is really not that more common for fans of V/M to be nasty as you suggested in your post, I agree there are some nasty ones but that can be said for any group of fans of particular skater(s).

Of course there are people from both sides that attack both teams, but fans of one team or person can gain a reputation that other fans do not, due to different patterns of behavior. 'Usual' has the meaning of 'the same people doing the same thing that they always do', not 'every single V/M uber is this way'. I know plenty of sweet V/M fans and plenty of people who are fans of both (like I am). The hate may be a vocal minority, but it is a vocal minority.

I can venture into other uber threads out there and get great information, but I stay far away from V/M threads despite being a fan of their skating. It's kind of a shame for me!

[Whitneyskates]

It seems to me that V/M fans seem to be a bit more....vocal?...than the average ubers. Most are fine but there are a few who are very aggressive in their negativity against other teams. D/W's new programs generated more conversation in the V/M thread than it did here,and it was the same few people who took turns being insulting about it. I've read this form for a few months and some of the V/M ubers always talk about negativity directed towards V/M but I have yet to see the negativity in this thread that they talk about. It seems any negative criticism about V/M is taken as an insult, apparently it just isn't possible to not like one of their programs.

V/M definitely inspire some hardcore devotion. Has anyone aver seen fanforum? They have almost 100 threads dedicated to them, not that that's a bad thing, but they once had a 5 page discussion on who Scott was pointing at during an exhibition finale.

I respect V/M, but I'm not a fan. They're extremely talented, they're just not my cup of tea.

[Bournekraatzfan]

Thank you so much for your reports, DORISPULASKI, TanithandBenFan, and circuscandy for your reports! I am so glad you enjoyed Skate America!
And thank you to literaryfreak, shsocu, and everyone who posted articles, links, and pics—that young Charlie pic is the cutest thing ever, and I love that Meryl posted it! And Meryl doing Gangnam style—just when I thought I couldn’t love her any more than I already do!

I was trying to collect my thoughts about their new FD. I love it, I already love it! I have watched it several times, and cannot wait to see their next competitive performances. I adored Die Fledermaus, but I think the transitions in this program are more difficult and more interesting. I also think that, artistically, this program is challenging them in ways that DF did not. There is a patience that is really developing in their skating…and by this, I am not only referring to taking time with each step, but also with the arm and head movements. By this, I mean they are attempting to work different levels with the arms, finishing with the hands, varying the position of the head and neck, positioning the arms low and then bringing them up, and (Meryl is) taking the time to move her arm across her body…varying the speed of her arm movements in response to the music and the mood she is trying to create. It is a subtle change, but one that I really appreciate.

My favourite section is the slower, quieter section in the beginning. I love Meryl’s extended arm and fingers in the camel spin, and I love the tension in her body and the position of her shoulders at the end of that element. And wow, the curve lift, followed by the rotational split lift is a beautiful highlight. I love how they are able to maintain their speed throughout that section.

I think Meryl is a gorgeous Esmeralda, and I really think this program could be an artistic breakthrough for Charlie. I am already seeing signs of it. He is really trying to push himself and work the music and connect to Meryl. I do agree with those who have said that the connection isn’t quite natural yet, but it may take some experimentation before they find a way to really tap into the connection they have and take it further, but I am happy they are addressing this area of their skating.
I cannot wait to see how this program progresses throughout the season. With more outings, I think they will really make the changes in tempo and mood pop. I love what I am seeing, though.

Btw, can anyone translate what the Russian commentators said about their new programs? Thanks in advance!