Davis and White #14 - Better Late Than Sinatra

[~tapdancer~]

Its almost like the judges and tech panels are trying to tighten up on the scores overall. Maybe to make Olympics more exciting? Just a random thought.

[nlyoung]

Its almost like the judges and tech panels are trying to tighten up on the scores overall. Maybe to make Olympics more exciting? Just a random thought.

I agree that there seems to be a trend to tighten up technical scores especially.

Component scores for the top couples don't seem to have been impacted in the same way and are high already. Both V/M and D/W have had 10s, and neither couple has performed a perfect program yet, but I think what we see when these two skate is relative grading, i.e. they are so much better than the rest of the field that there is nowhere to go but up . (See I/K's scores from the preseason for another example of relative over-scoring, as their scores were comparable to what the top two have been given so far on the GP, yet they came back to earth at COR).

I'm happy about the tougher technical calling as this is far more realistic, especially early in the season when the teams are still working to perfect their programs. D/W were given such high scores early on for programs last year that even though they did improve as the season went on, there was nowhere to go with the marks.

[bmcg]

No, they had a little more than 107 for FD last year.

Of course. There was 2.85 point difference between the two for the most part in TES(losing a level in twizzles and one step sequence from the previous year). Their PCS, however, is the same 56.53(2011) and 56.73 (2012). My gut feeling is the elements they already had ready for their La Strada program could be placed in the new DF program so those elements were probably better trained. I imagine to go from a Sinatra program to a Notre Damn program you would have to change the feelings and movement in the step sequences and probably the twizzles as well. So if those elements were newer, rawer, I wouldn't expect them to skate to their potential. Also to consider is V&M also had to change a step sequence to get a higher level even though they felt the way they originally did the sequence is harder. The same could be true for D&W. I would be very surprised to see the same calls at their next GP event. Meryl and Charlie are fighters and will have found out by now exactly what they need to do to get those levels.

[sap5]

No, they had a little more than 107 for FD last year.

I hope those judges were reprimanded. Getting a 107 at a debut is ridiculous. Guess what D/W got at Worlds? A little more than 107. What does that tell the skaters? You didn't improve anything all season? It's poor judging and hurts the skaters.

[~tapdancer~]

I hope those judges were reprimanded. Getting a 107 at a debut is ridiculous. Guess what D/W got at Worlds? A little more than 107. What does that tell the skaters? You didn't improve anything all season? It's poor judging and hurts the skaters.

Well that could be questionable since they got 112 at GPF.

[lauravvv]

Well that could be questionable since they got 112 at GPF.

Well, there was obviously an overscoring at GPF, but not so much at Worlds (at least in dance).

[DORISPULASKI]

Or you could say they were underscored at Worlds, or made mistakes at Worlds, given that their score at WTT was 111.18 after Worlds, and that their highest ever score was 112.38 at GPF.

Certainly, I'd say the tech panel at GPF was an easy one, that they made visible mistakes at 4CC's, yielding a lower score, and Worlds, frankly, I thought the tech panel was inconsistent, not just hard.

As to M&C's difficulty, they received a level 4 on the 2nd sequence of the YP, and a level 2 on the first at SKAM. The only issue that I see on the tech side is something off about how the twizzles are fitted into the FD (making them easy to make a mistake on, which Charlie did), and whatever the heck went wrong with the second step sequence to make it level 2, which is concerning.

However, both V&M and D&W are going with almost all new lifts this year, and are really pushing themselves in other ways this year. The lifts affect both things that happen after them, and things that happen before them.

I hope Meryl & Charlie have the FD sorted at NHK.

I loved the SD as it was, only wanting some change to make the lift go a little better. It was just lovely live, and remarkable as a debut :love:


Skate America Short Dance (the photos next & previous are also of them)
http://photography.ice-dance.com/201...-DW-RR_595.jpg

Skate America Free Dance (the photos next are also of them)

http://photography.ice-dance.com/201...-DW-RR_595.jpg, after Worlds.

Not every performance is a step upward for a team, for whatever reason.

[literaryfreak]

Icenetwork's Sectionals interview with D/W is up now!

I wonder, assuming D/W make the GPF, will they go home in between or go straight to the GPF (Russia) from NHK (Japan)? I noticed the Shibs aren't going back to Canton between Cup of Russia and NHK.

[circuscandy]

Its almost like the judges and tech panels are trying to tighten up on the scores overall. Maybe to make Olympics more exciting? Just a random thought.

That was one of my theories, at least as far as TES. Because we still see that the top teams are getting much higher PCS. I mean, Meryl and Charlie's FD has the highest so far (not by much, though).

Anyway, we'll really have to wait until the end of the season to judge if there is a pattern and what that pattern truly means. The second half of last season brought a sort of reckoning to M/C. The way they were getting scored by the GPF, I was expecting their final scores to shoot through the roof and hit the moon!

[shan]

Of course. There was 2.85 point difference between the two for the most part in TES(losing a level in twizzles and one step sequence from the previous year). Their PCS, however, is the same 56.53(2011) and 56.73 (2012). My gut feeling is the elements they already had ready for their La Strada program could be placed in the new DF program so those elements were probably better trained. I imagine to go from a Sinatra program to a Notre Damn program you would have to change the feelings and movement in the step sequences and probably the twizzles as well.

I don't think the feelings and movement from La Strada would be any more easily translated to DF, than Sinatra to Notre Dame.

[iNap]

Funny face have same funny feeling as carmen just like la strada have the same feeling like Die fledermaus Sinatra have not a damn feeling, maybe all smiling and cute. It is Marina standard program when she feel lazy

[literaryfreak]

Funny face have same funny feeling as carmen just like la strada have the same feeling like Die fledermaus Sinatra have not a damn feeling, maybe all smiling and cute. It is Marina standard program when she feel lazy

[shsocu]

Do Meryl and Charlie always compete during Thanksgiving? It seems that way Can't wait for NHK!

[DORISPULASKI]

Probably related to college vacations?

[bmcg]

I don't think the feelings and movement from La Strada would be any more easily translated to DF, than Sinatra to Notre Dame.

Fair enough. We don't know what their music was like for La Strada but when I think of past programs for La Strada I can see how lifts and other elements to certain parts of the music could translate to the music DF. For me it's a bigger stretch to interchange elements from Sinatra to Notre Dame as Sinatra is lighter and ND heavier and more dramatic (for instance I don't particularly like their famous DF lift in Notre Dame, it's a fantastic lift and can see why it's used again as it gets them +3 in GOE but for me it doesn't suit the mood and tempo of the music and therefore less impressive than it is in faster perkier music.)

[DORISPULASKI]

?
I thought it suited the mood, since it celebrates the the part of the Dans mon Esmeralda song where the words are:

Danse mon Esméralda
Chante mon Esméralda
Laisse-moi partir avec toi
Mourir pour toi n'est pas mourir

Dance my Esmeralda
Sing my Esmeralda
Let me go with you,
To die for you is not dying!

Charlie is still looking pained, but Meryl is looking transformed, off to heaven.

Works for me.

[Piper]

Fair enough. We don't know what their music was like for La Strada but when I think of past programs for La Strada I can see how lifts and other elements to certain parts of the music could translate to the music DF. For me it's a bigger stretch to interchange elements from Sinatra to Notre Dame as Sinatra is lighter and ND heavier and more dramatic (for instance I don't particularly like their famous DF lift in Notre Dame, it's a fantastic lift and can see why it's used again as it gets them +3 in GOE but for me it doesn't suit the mood and tempo of the music and therefore less impressive than it is in faster perkier music.)

According to Marina, the judges themselves asked to leave this lift for the next season.

http://winter.sport-express.ru/figur...reviews/26123/

[Theatregirl1122]

Of course. There was 2.85 point difference between the two for the most part in TES(losing a level in twizzles and one step sequence from the previous year). Their PCS, however, is the same 56.53(2011) and 56.73 (2012). My gut feeling is the elements they already had ready for their La Strada program could be placed in the new DF program so those elements were probably better trained. I imagine to go from a Sinatra program to a Notre Damn program you would have to change the feelings and movement in the step sequences and probably the twizzles as well. So if those elements were newer, rawer, I wouldn't expect them to skate to their potential. Also to consider is V&M also had to change a step sequence to get a higher level even though they felt the way they originally did the sequence is harder. The same could be true for D&W. I would be very surprised to see the same calls at their next GP event. Meryl and Charlie are fighters and will have found out by now exactly what they need to do to get those levels.

The change to DF happened much later. I don't think the two situations are that comparable. The switch to ND came well before Champs camp. I don't know how much of the Sinatra FD was created before they decided the concept wasn't working, but there is a quite a difference between making a whole new program after champs camp and switching ideas in time to be prepared to skate at champs camp.

I think the reason that DF was pretty much ready to go out of the gate where ND is not is probably fairly similar to why S&D was ready to go right out of the gate where ER and Il Postino had much more tweaking. DF and S&D were both concepts that Marina had in her head (for D&W or in general) for a very long time. So I think they premiered more as finished products where as other FDs Meryl and Charlie have had were works in progress choreographically and conceptually when they started the season.

[sap5]

According to Marina, the judges themselves asked to leave this lift for the next season.

http://winter.sport-express.ru/figur...reviews/26123/

It's been translated: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...iew-with-Zueva

Are they talking about the DF lift? I thought that lift shows up at the end, not the beginning.

[DORISPULASKI]

It'a at the end.

Have you seen Charlie's video & article on NHL.com ?
Some very cute childhood hockey footage of him & interview stuff.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=645293