Davis and White #14 - Better Late Than Sinatra

**lauravvv** · 09-13-2012, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Jessiebanana

You don't have to agree with me, but I think a lot of V/M fans hated the choreography. Obviously they got the levels in the requirements, but the elements in between and the the difficulty in timing to the music wasn't anywhere near their past programs or DF. It was the type of choreography you might expect for a new team. They could have made FF less cutesy, there's quite a bit more to FF than that, but they didn't and I'll never know why. It was obviously very important to Tessa.

Many fans didn't like the music and the style, but I don't remember many posts (if any) about disliking the choreography. I can't agree about difficulty - there was a lot of nuance, tempo changes, and so on. Maybe not liking the music stopped people from noticing it. Also - one of Tessa and Scott's main qualities is indeed that often they make the difficult seem easy, while, when Meryl and Charlie are skating, you see how difficult it is, and think: ''Wow! How difficult! And how easily they did that!"

. I am not saying that one or other style of skating is better - to each their own. I don't agree about "new team'' - that was much too difficult and refined for a new team. About "cutesy" - I agree that a part of it was cutesy, but definitely not all of it (imho).

Originally Posted by Susan M

Actually, I was saying Meryl & Charlie skate to the edge of the precipice - taking everything to the max. Sometime their edges get so deep, I'm afraid they will fall over. Tessa & Scott skate in a very contained style and don't skate with that same amplitude.

It's not like Tessa and Scott's edges are any less deeper. As for amplitude - well, I haven't seen any of them skate live, but from those who have seen both teams live I've heard that Tessa/Scott don't skate with a lesser amplitude than Meryl and Charlie. Apparently it only looks that way on TV (and not to everyone

). Recently I read a comment from someone stating that the two teams who really skate "big" are Virtue/Moir and Ilinykh/Katsalapov - but that was from a Tessa/Scott fan, so no wonder.

**comickiwi** · 09-13-2012, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by mia joy

....Their skating quality is undeniable, for me they're just lacking the "IT" factor, some on ice personality maybe, some inner fire. All those things Meryl and Charlie have so much of. Plus, Scott's off ice behaviour usually doesn't help.

I think I understand what you mean by "forced" or "too refined", although I can't put it down in words either. Once again, I like to quote The Black Swan: "Perfection is not just about control. It's also about letting go". For me the letting go part is where Meryl and Charlie beat Tessa and Scott. Too much control becomes bland in the end.

You're right! Meryl and Charlie have an abandon and joy that's just exhilarating to watch while others might skate to perfection but is missing the "fire" - well, to me, anyway (doesn't apply to everyone, V/M fans don't scold me please). I'm glad that people love D/W for this. I'm in good company

**mollymgr** · 09-13-2012, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by missysays

Cute article about skaters and memories of their first day at school...

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

Poor Charlie!!

Thanks! Poor Charlie indeed

I missed this one in all those posts. I thought Andrew's story was the saddest.

**shan** · 09-13-2012, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by mollymgr

Thanks! Poor Charlie indeed

I missed this one in all those posts. I thought Andrew's story was the saddest.

Which Andrew, Speroff or Gonzales? It sounds like they both had issues.

Jeremy Abbott's picture is sooo cute!!

And I have to agree, poor Charlie falling asleep on the bus.

**mollymgr** · 09-13-2012, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by shan

Which Andrew, Speroff or Gonzales? It sounds like they both had issues.

Jeremy Abbott's picture is sooo cute!!

And I have to agree, poor Charlie falling asleep on the bus.

Speroff…poor kid was probably heartbroken about his brand new shoes. Gonzales had a bad case of separation anxiety

**Proustable** · 09-13-2012, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by missysays

Cute article about skaters and memories of their first day at school...

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

Poor Charlie!!

Yeah, I've gotta imagine that's rather scary. Hopefully he can laugh about it now (I chuckled a little, I admit).

I don't remember my first day of school, however.

Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122

It's best to just ignore trolls no matter how many personas they may have.

Seriously.

**Jessiebanana** · 09-13-2012, 02:53 AM

Like I said, your opinion is your opinion. You're free to have it.

**Theatregirl1122** · 09-13-2012, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by Proustable

Yeah, I've gotta imagine that's rather scary. Hopefully he can laugh about it now (I chuckled a little, I admit).

I don't remember my first day of school, however.

I definitely don't remember my first day of school. Heck, I don't remember my first day of college.

**circuscandy** · 09-13-2012, 04:08 AM

I was intimidated by people whose feet could actually touch the floor of the bus.

And an older girl made a face at my (rather babyish) backpack. Traumatized.

I have no memories of the actual school day, however. Must have been eventful.

**Piper** · 09-13-2012, 09:53 AM

I've had a break in watching figure skating from 2002 to 2007, but I feel like I really started watching it in 2009-2010 season.
It started when I went to Rostelecom Cup 2009...and there were Meryl and Charlie spinning it their incredible twizzles right in front of me. Since then, I love them.
I've also always admired Tessa and Scott and I was really happy for them in Vancouver - their FD was brilliant. The only problem with them for me was that they were...I don't know, too good to be true, like romantic movie characters. Meryl and Charlie were...more real, sort of.
In 2010-2011 I was surrounded by V\M fans who didn't even try to hide their dislike for Meryl and Charlie and reminded all the time how awful they are, blah blah blah.
It was not easy to get used to it - it didn't lessen my admiration for V/M though. But Scott's demeanour after GPF 2011 did.
I understand that if you really like the skater, his off-ice behaviour shouldn't bother you much...but it doesn't work for me. One of the things I love about D/W is how they handle the situation when they lose.

**Theatregirl1122** · 09-13-2012, 03:19 PM

Scott's off ice behavior doesn't really bother me but I don't see any reason why a skater's off ice behavior shouldn't affect how you feel about them. People become fans for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it is because something in their skating grabs you, sometimes it is because you get to see a really big moment for them live and you become emotionally invested in them, sometimes it's because you have a funny exchange with them in the lobby of a hotel. Not everyone is a fan purely because of a skater's skating and nothing else. And I'm not sure why they should be.

**literaryfreak** · 09-13-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Susan M

Actually, I was saying Meryl & Charlie skate to the edge of the precipice - taking everything to the max. Sometime their edges get so deep, I'm afraid they will fall over. Tessa & Scott skate in a very contained style and don't skate with that same amplitude.

That's what I find so impressive about D-W. It sometimes looks like raw power, but they are totally in control.

I think I know what you mean:

D/W have a sense of abandon. You can't fake that. For all their talents, it is one thing Tessa and Scott do not have.

**lauravvv** · 09-13-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122

Not everyone is a fan purely because of a skater's skating and nothing else. And I'm not sure why they should be.

Who said that? I at least didn't. I just explained how it is for me, but I didn't imply that it should be like that for everyone. Still, if you would ask me, I'd say that you can't be a fan of a person - you can like a person, but if you don't like what they do on ice/stage/so on, then you're not a fan. In that case it's something else.

**Theatregirl1122** · 09-13-2012, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by lauravvv

Who said that? I at least didn't. I just explained how it is for me, but I didn't imply that it should be like that for everyone. Still, if you would ask me, I'd say that you can't be a fan of a person - you can like a person, but if you don't like what they do on ice/stage/so on, then you're not a fan. In that case it's something else.

I was responding the poster directly above me who said that they knew they shouldn't let Scott's personality affect whether or not they are a fan. But I also disagree with you. If you are rooting for an athlete, you are a fan no matter why you root for them. Although my point was not that you n be a fan without liking someone's skating. It was that you can become a fan for reasons other than skating. For me there is a difference between enjoying someone's skating and really being a fan and rooting for them.

**Piper** · 09-13-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122

Scott's off ice behavior doesn't really bother me but I don't see any reason why a skater's off ice behavior shouldn't affect how you feel about them. People become fans for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it is because something in their skating grabs you, sometimes it is because you get to see a really big moment for them live and you become emotionally invested in them, sometimes it's because you have a funny exchange with them in the lobby of a hotel. Not everyone is a fan purely because of a skater's skating and nothing else. And I'm not sure why they should be.

I agree, but I meant that a good skater doesn't have to be a good person - and I hope I'm more a fan of figure skating than skater's personalities.

**Rafter** · 09-13-2012, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by literaryfreak

I think I know what you mean:

D/W have a sense of abandon. You can't fake that. For all their talents, it is one thing Tessa and Scott do not have.

And having a sense of abandon is not always a positive thing in ice dance in some fans' eyes.

**iNap** · 09-13-2012, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rafter

And having a sense of abandon is not always a positive thing in ice dance in some fans' eyes.

maybe then get eyes checked

**Theatregirl1122** · 09-14-2012, 12:04 AM

I think we can all agree that Meryl and Charlie and Virtue and Moir fans may value different things in ice dance and that we all accept that not everyone will agree with our opinion.

**comickiwi** · 09-14-2012, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122

I think we can all agree that Meryl and Charlie and Virtue and Moir fans may value different things in ice dance and that we all accept that not everyone will agree with our opinion.

Agreed, they all have something that is exceptional in the ice dancing field and all aspects of it should be appreciated no matter who the skater is.

IMHO, it's the "superhero" image that people form in their minds when they like/admire someone. From far, it's all good but up close, the idol is a normal person who eats, poops, sleeps like everyone else. I suppose it shatters the fan's impression a little when a glimpse of reality is seen and more often than not it is a tad disappointing. To be fair, we caught only a snippet of Scott's behaviour and do not know what led to it, the whole situation could have been completely misconstrued.

**semogal** · 09-14-2012, 04:50 PM

I watched the SD from Salt Lake last night. I can't wait to see what Meryl and Charlie do this season.

I also have to admit surprise. When Yankee Polka was announced I thought we would be subjected to lots of accordian music and mental images of beer gardens. But nothing I watched yesterday even seemed like polka music to me.

And I know I can't change anything and I have to live with it but I HATE THE SD concept. (sorry, needed to vent).

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