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  1. #641
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by smileyskate View Post
    Manaud, I watched it and I don't think that Tracey and Scott even had too much to say during the performance as they just loved it.The usual comments about his speed/flow, and Kurt liked his "Skid". Tracey (I think) liked his old school thinking by putting the quad with the toe on it at the beginning of the program to just get it done, rather than put it in the 2nd half for more points. Someone may have commented about proving all the people wrong who were complaining about him just having the dance coach. They did mention that he took a few lessons with Scott Davis and then skated in Detroit, but no mention of who (if anyone), he took lessons from in Detroit.
    Thanks Smileyskate.

  2. #642
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    Oh Patty

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    Congrats to patrick. He was lucky his short was so fantastic because that long was... well....anyway, he won again so good for him.

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    I hope he gets the jumps more consistent. IMO he always deserves to win the PCS, but to win like that is just disappointing for everybody.

  5. #645
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    Oh...okay congrats anyway Patty. 3 time World Champ, take it and enjoy, sometimes these things happen. Still love ya! What a mess though for most skaters tonight. Something in the water I guess. Anyway thought Denis might take it he was senstional loved him, one of the few. Andre Rogozine,Hanyu, Joubert(yes you Brian) were also very enjoyable and Kevin fought hard congrats to him 5th amazing!

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    And people wonder why the sport is dying. Nights like this are why.

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    ^ Agreed.

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    I am so disappointed, but I think he is a lucky boy, everyone was not good at all except Denis Ten, and the system help him to stay at the top podium. I hope he can improve for next year.....OLY

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    I was thinking tonight watching the men that right now the system is asking for it all and no one seems to be capable of that.

    I mean since the IJS - who has been able to do all the elements to gain the most points AND have the quad?

    Jeff Buttle pretty much had everything BUT the quad - high level spins and footwork, difficult transitions, difficult jumps and combos, excellent performance and musicality and a well balanced program.

    Others have had the high levels on jumps without the complicated transitions and high levels on everything else. But who does it all? On a good day - a few of them can do it - but no one consistently through both programs and through multiple competitions.

    Even in 6.0 there weren't too many men with the kind of consistency Plushenko had - and in that system you could gain your points by being an Elvis or a Timothy Goebel or by being slightly less technically proficient - but more well rounded as a performer and in other areas.

    Now we want it all and maybe we just can't have it?

    I was thinking about this tonight - so many talented men and none of them able to lay it down. And I wonder if we are just asking too much. People are tough on Patrick for his falls - and for leaving Christy but he is in excellent company among others who can't seem to do it all either.

    Anyhow - I was gutted for Patrick who seemed so sad apologizing to the crowd. Poor guy.

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    It's strange feeling sorry for the guy with a gold medal around his neck, but this was a hard night

  11. #651
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    Maybe we are asking too much of these skaters and some should try to 'play it safe' but when someone is on it's magic but it's all too rare. I hate feeling this way for Patrick. Hate it. SP was a masterpiece, this just broke my heart especially after such an amazing start.

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    Apparently you can win in the short. :S Definitely not his best tonight but he got the job done. Unfortunately, there are going to be lots of people sharpening their pitchforks and vilifying Patrick. On the bright side, how amazing were those opening 2 quads?

  13. #653
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    Hey Everyone...Just wanted to see how the thread was doing after the event tonight and also share my thoughts too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I hope he gets the jumps more consistent. IMO he always deserves to win the PCS, but to win like that is just disappointing for everybody.
    As I said to my Parents when bringing up my dishes from a very late supper, I got to sing Oh Canada tonight, but not for a true win. I hate it when I feel like that when a Canadian wins anything in this kind of a way.

    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Oh...okay congrats anyway Patty. 3 time World Champ, take it and enjoy, sometimes these things happen. Still love ya! What a mess though for most skaters tonight. Something in the water I guess. Anyway thought Denis might take it he was senstional loved him, one of the few. Andre Rogozine,Hanyu, Joubert(yes you Brian) were also very enjoyable and Kevin fought hard congrats to him 5th amazing!
    You know, I was trying to hear the sound of the blades on the ice, which is hard on Bold at times due to PJ not always knowing when to let the pictures tell the story, and when I was able to the ice had that brittle harsh sound to it. When I hear that, usually it means the ice is harder than it should be. I mean...I was watching takeoffs pretty carefully and there was a *lot* of picks skidding during toe pick jumps entries tonight. Also more than a few edge jumps missed due to what looked like the edge skidded off on the skater at the worst time of the jump.

    Now I wasn't there, so don't know if that was the case inside the Arena, but that's just from my experience of attending events over the years. You hear that harsh, scraping, brittle sound to crosscuts and 9 times out of 10, you've got ice that's a touch or more too hard. Great for hockey and short track. Not so much for figure skating.

    As I said....JMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    And people wonder why the sport is dying. Nights like this are why.
    Not just this, the events of the entire day is why the sport's dying. PJ was gushing this afternoon on Twitter on what a fantastic afternoon it was for Canada and more so tonight. Did we win medals? Yes. Did we get the full team allotment for Sochi in Pairs and Mens? Yes. In the process did the ISU add another nail or two in the coffin of the Sport? Big time YES!!!

    This was not a great day for skating. Canadian or otherwise and that hurts to have to say.

    Okay...Not sure what happened between him and Casey at the end of last Season, but this should be a wake up call to Patrick to either put his cap in his hand and apologize, then ask to be taken back. Either that or find someone, anyone, who is very well known in skating circles for being able to help out someone w/their jumps. He needs a real skating coach now.

    If he doesn't, then I don't even want to think of what kind of a Patrick we'll see next season. I am genuinely worried now about Patrick and the direction he's headed down w/out a real skating coach. I really hope he wakes up and realizes that. However, w/the Gold Medal and World Title Three....sigh.

  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by AragornElessar View Post
    Hey Everyone...Just wanted to see how the thread was doing after the event tonight and also share my thoughts too...



    As I said to my Parents when bringing up my dishes from a very late supper, I got to sing Oh Canada tonight, but not for a true win. I hate it when I feel like that when a Canadian wins anything in this kind of a way.



    You know, I was trying to hear the sound of the blades on the ice, which is hard on Bold at times due to PJ not always knowing when to let the pictures tell the story, and when I was able to the ice had that brittle harsh sound to it. When I hear that, usually it means the ice is harder than it should be. I mean...I was watching takeoffs pretty carefully and there was a *lot* of picks skidding during toe pick jumps entries tonight. Also more than a few edge jumps missed due to what looked like the edge skidded off on the skater at the worst time of the jump.

    Now I wasn't there, so don't know if that was the case inside the Arena, but that's just from my experience of attending events over the years. You hear that harsh, scraping, brittle sound to crosscuts and 9 times out of 10, you've got ice that's a touch or more too hard. Great for hockey and short track. Not so much for figure skating.

    As I said....JMO.



    Not just this, the events of the entire day is why the sport's dying. PJ was gushing this afternoon on Twitter on what a fantastic afternoon it was for Canada and more so tonight. Did we win medals? Yes. Did we get the full team allotment for Sochi in Pairs and Mens? Yes. In the process did the ISU add another nail or two in the coffin of the Sport? Big time YES!!!

    This was not a great day for skating. Canadian or otherwise and that hurts to have to say.

    Okay...Not sure what happened between him and Casey at the end of last Season, but this should be a wake up call to Patrick to either put his cap in his hand and apologize, then ask to be taken back. Either that or find someone, anyone, who is very well known in skating circles for being able to help out someone w/their jumps. He needs a real skating coach now.

    If he doesn't, then I don't even want to think of what kind of a Patrick we'll see next season. I am genuinely worried now about Patrick and the direction he's headed down w/out a real skating coach. I really hope he wakes up and realizes that. However, w/the Gold Medal and World Title Three....sigh.
    Funny I think it was Rogozine or an earlier skater I heard him say something about the ice being hard when he came off to get his marks. But hey everyone skated on the same surface so...

    ITA Patrick you tried the experiment failed(though I loved the programs) but you got out by the skin of your teeth. Chock it up as an experience move on and get a real coach, honey you are gonna need it.

  15. #655
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    He has looked solid in practice all week, and he did 3 perfect quads in this competition. It's not like he's lost all his jumps or anything like that. He can do the jumps. It's just a matter of doing them when it counts in the competition. Seems to be more of a mental problem to me.

    Tonight he did what he needed to do. The first two quads were flawless beyond anything. He lost a lot of points on the mistakes, but I can only imagine what kind of gigantic score he would've gotten if he went clean. Denis Ten won the free skate, but Patrick stayed in first thanks to the SP.

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    It's not like Patrick skated his best at last year's Worlds. But he still sought change. I doubt he will rest on his laurels just because he won. He knows how he skated.

    Oh, well. What do I know. I've been watching S&S' LP on a loop. Their Bolero is damn catchy.

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    I was thinking tonight watching the men that right now the system is asking for it all and no one seems to be capable of that.

    I mean since the IJS - who has been able to do all the elements to gain the most points AND have the quad?

    Jeff Buttle pretty much had everything BUT the quad - high level spins and footwork, difficult transitions, difficult jumps and combos, excellent performance and musicality and a well balanced program.

    Others have had the high levels on jumps without the complicated transitions and high levels on everything else. But who does it all? On a good day - a few of them can do it - but no one consistently through both programs and through multiple competitions.

    Even in 6.0 there weren't too many men with the kind of consistency Plushenko had - and in that system you could gain your points by being an Elvis or a Timothy Goebel or by being slightly less technically proficient - but more well rounded as a performer and in other areas.

    Now we want it all and maybe we just can't have it?

    I was thinking about this tonight - so many talented men and none of them able to lay it down. And I wonder if we are just asking too much. People are tough on Patrick for his falls - and for leaving Christy but he is in excellent company among others who can't seem to do it all either.

    Anyhow - I was gutted for Patrick who seemed so sad apologizing to the crowd. Poor guy.
    I think so too.

    If we majorly penalize falls, I bet we will see A LOT more people bail out on quads and triples if they are the slightest bit off. We'll be seeing waaaay more doubles than falls, and I'm sure people will be getting out the "people are getting on the podium with junior-level jumps!" pitchforks then.

    I don't think anyone wants to see the sport regress. And in a way, it hasn't. Patrick won because of those 2 gorgeous quads. So many men tried them, because there was incentive to do so. If we scare the skaters into doing everything perfectly, with falls penalized with 5 points off or something, nobody would take any chances.

    And sure, it isn't figure falling, but it sure isn't figure jumping either. Patrick deserves a comfortable cushion in skating skills and choreography. Maybe not for performance on severely off days, but even on his off days, he keeps his speed and performance up better than most. That's not his fault.

  18. #658
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    I feel for Patrick this was not the skate that he wanted to win with. I don't blame the judges too but the system. Looking at the protocols the judges were fair given the system.

    I am on the bandwagon that falls should have a bigger deduction but also don't want the sport to regress. Maybe bigger deduction for falls in triples but keep the single point deduction for rotated quads?

  19. #659
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    Looking at the scores again this morning, Patrick only beat Denis Ten on the PCS by 2 points. And Denis even beat him on the PE score. Seems fair to me. Denis has a lovely program, but the choreo is not as difficult and complex as Patrick's is. So Patrick got the the 2-point advantage there.

    Then the TES. Denis scored 87 and Patrick scored 82. Patrick got huge marks for his first two quads (30.13 in total - more than a third of his entire technical score!). Denis only did 1 quad and it was not in combination. Denis gained back those points with huge marks on both of his 3A's, whereas Patrick only got about 3 points for his 3A< fall. Patrick got decent marks for this 3F/3S sequence even with a -1.3 on the GOE for the hand down. Also interesting to note - I think that Patrick got level 3's for both of his spins whereas Denis got level 4's, but Patrick scored higher on the step sequences.

    All of this seems fair to me, given the scoring system. Patrick got the points for the things he did well (quads, step sequence, the program itself) and lost a lot of points on the things he did not do well.

    The problem is that the average person isn't going to take the time to look up a protocol and go through the marks in detail. How can we communicate the breakdown of the scores to the average viewer?
    I was in the arena last night, but when I got back I re-watched the event on CBC. During Joubert's program Tracy mentioned that they need to find a way to communicate on the monitors under rotations and downgrades, etc so the audience can better understand the scores as they come up. But I don't really have a solution for this.

    I'm sure that the debate will rage on and unfortunately Patrick will be at the receiving end of the anger towards IJS. But to be honest, the more I think about the scores from last night, the more I actually think this was a fair, well-judged event.

  20. #660
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    How about instead of showing marks TES + PCS at the bottom of the screen, they have a side screen listing out all the elements and how much points are earned. Kind of like how they use to do it in beauty pageants... except not as cheesy.

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