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  1. #121
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    I am amazed at TAT commenting that it is not possible to teach without touching, when the student apparently accuses Stretenski of stalking her by sending her hundreds of text messages , kissing her and touching her inappropriately. Stretenski may or may not be guilty, but Tarasova's comments make no sense in this context.

    What business does she have to comment on such an incident from across the ocean anyway? People whose opinions count should be more responsible IMO. The whole establishment against a teenager is not fair, to say the least.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    I think Werner is the worst possible advocate to bring. Taking half of his articles are about made up sexual life of skaters/coaches and he is mainly busy writing about skater's bust size (minors included) and had he be writing in English he would be sued after every 2nd article. I also don't recall Werner ever even trying to be polite about the women, so yes, if Werner says a man is not guilty in a sex scandal I'd jump to a conclusion the guy is guilty as hell
    Another thing that Werner has said it will be difficult close and to impossible to prove that Sretensky is not guilty. He also pointed out that Russian coaches, the more experienced ones, usually sign a paper with parents of their students that discusses this issue of touching while teaching. I have no idea what he is talking about, is it a usual thing to sign such a paper. Perhaps, someone who is familiar could clarify.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    I just think it is not right to slam Iceymom or any other poster who has different opinion. It does not mean that they support a child molester. This only means they see this situation differently, at least, at this point. This other side also has to be heard.
    Yes. But not if the other side is slinging mud at an alleged victim, saying that since the alleged victim is allegedly sexually active, it makes the alleged abuse all right.

    So yes, it is right to slam Iceymom for saying that. This kind of sexist discourse is not acceptable.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Yes. But not if the other side is slinging mud at an alleged victim, saying that since the alleged victim is allegedly sexually active, it makes the alleged abuse all right.

    So yes, it is right to slam Iceymom for saying that. This kind of sexist discourse is not acceptable.
    Where did you read this? What I can read from Iceymom posts is that she is a part of a local community, this never happend to Sretenski before and local community supports him. There was also a suggestion that the accuser has her own issues which will be revealed in time. I agree that mentioning of menthal conditions and sexual behavior of the girl was unnecessary but where did you see that she said that this makes this abuse all right?

    Sexist discourse is not the only discours of power. This kind of slamming, that you are a part of, is also a discourse of power, in no way different.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    I agree that mentioning of menthal conditions and sexual behavior of the girl was unnecessary but where did you see that she said that this makes this abuse all right?
    She didn't say it literally, no. But if you are using somebody's 'sexual activity' as an argument against them in a case of alleged sexual abuse/assault, you are basically saying: 'She wanted it/she got what she deserved/etc.'

    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    Sexist discourse is not the only discours of power. This kind of slamming, that you are a part of, is also a discourse of power, in no way different.
    Having one person criticise another person is something entirely different to a pattern of discrimination and abuse that is systemic and deeply entrenched in society.

    Unless you keep reacting to it, it is never going to change.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 09-08-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    She didn't say it literally, no
    This.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I am amazed at TAT commenting that it is not possible to teach without touching, when the student apparently accuses Stretenski of stalking her by sending her hundreds of text messages , kissing her and touching her inappropriately. Stretenski may or may not be guilty, but Tarasova's comments make no sense in this context.

    What business does she have to comment on such an incident from across the ocean anyway? People whose opinions count should be more responsible IMO. The whole establishment against a teenager is not fair, to say the least.
    She answered because she was asked. Her reply mostly concerned unproper touching and that it is not possible to teach without them. She said she used to teach Americans Sasha Cohen, Johnny Weir and never faced such issues (http://radiovesti.ru/articles/2012-09-06/fm/65361).

    It is not suprising that the establishment, or skating world, began to discuss this problem or react. In case if accusation happens, and it can happen to any coach, perhaps, they feel unprotected. Like I said, there was that recent case of Riabov in Russia in which mother of 13 y.o. girl falsly accused a teacher. TAT could comment having the Riabov's case in mind.

    In this particular case, it is also not only a teenager who is involved, but also her father with $5-million bill to Sretenski. I am from non-American context, maybe it is normal for the US but this $5-million bill gives me thoughts about this case that would not be appreciated in this thread.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    What business does she have to comment on such an incident from across the ocean anyway? People whose opinions count should be more responsible IMO. The whole establishment against a teenager is not fair, to say the least.
    He's a Russian living in US and now in jail. She's a Russian who used to live in US, using her experience to explain to readers at home a situation that perhaps they are unfamiliar with.

    It's unfortunate that she didn't try to explain the civil case issues, but maybe she doesnt know. It seems that whenever items about skating get translated here and there's a bad reaction, it's always explained that the paper was a trash magazine.

    But she does seem to be spinning, and trying to reassure readers at home that it's nothing serious, all just a silly cultural misunderstanding.

  9. #129

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    Assuming the alleged incident took place at midnight in a hotel room, TAT's comments are irrelevant and misleading. But, I agree that there is a good chance the comments were mistranslated and/or taken out of context ... which is why I suggested earlier in this thread that TAT and Sretenski would have been better served by TAT NOT commenting.

    O-

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    He also pointed out that Russian coaches, the more experienced ones, usually sign a paper with parents of their students that discusses this issue of touching while teaching. I have no idea what he is talking about, is it a usual thing to sign such a paper. Perhaps, someone who is familiar could clarify.
    I know of coaches in the U.S. (not Russian emigres, either) who, as part of their contracts with their skaters, ask the skater / parent/ guardian to sign a form indicating whether they consent to physical contact as part of the coach's instruction. And consent (or not) to physical contact is just one element of the framework presented in the agreement regarding the student's commitments to his or her training.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  11. #131
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    This may help

    Ive been reading these posts with some interest since I know Genrikh and many of the other coaches at Gardens and many of the folks on this forum. So hopefully what I can add may be of some use. First, Icymom is correct when she talks about Genrikh. His reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer are stellar. I can tell you without a doubt after talking to the accusers family that they were completely blindsided and shocked when they found out that this had happened. I can also tell you that over a year ago, child protective services filed complaints in Laurel and NY which were the initial drivers in this case. The investigation in Laurel led to a finding where sexual assault of a minor was indicated and which has been under appeal by Sretenski and his lawyer. New hearings to either uphold or dismiss this finding are scheduled in October and November.

    The teens in question wanted to work with Genrikh as their principle coach and not just their choreographer. As with most serious dancers, when you get to the point where you are dreaming of a spot on the US team, you need a coach that can take you there. For many teams at Gardens, Genrikh worked with another Anerican coach who served as the head coach. As these teams improved, they inevitably reached the point where more time with Genrikh was sought and a switch of coaching staff was requested. For most, this request was denied and teams either left, as with Bonacorsi and Mager, or quit, as with Friedenberg and Nykiel. In this case, the request was accepted and Genrikh became the head coach. In speaking with the family, the switch to Genrikh was everything they had hoped for. Their trust in him was total, just like Icymom, i would imagine making the betrayal of that trust so much more shocking. The one thing I can say without any doubt is that this person had not the slightest grudge against Genrikh or his family. They talked of him with the highest respect and admiration. There was never anything like a grudge or disappointment as Icymom suggests. In that regard, Icymom is completely mistaken. I think I know why she feels this way. It's because her child has lost their choreographer. Unfortunately in a cut-throat skater world (which really doesn't ever have to be that way) losing a choreographer is far worse for a skate mom that your child losing a skating buddy. Sad, but true.

    One last piece people may find interesting. At the time of the incident, the family filed an ethics violation grievance against Sretenski with the USFS and PSA and told the rink what had happened. The USFS accepted the case but no investigation ensued because of the pending court cases in PG County and NY. I always found this odd because this inaction put the USFA and Gardens at risk for knowing something was brewing and looking the other way. Lots of young girls and boys were placed in the hands of these coaches. I think some investigation would have been better than none. This may be at the heart of the civil suit.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    Arthur Werner, who is not the most reliable source
    Arthur Werner is a mud-raker of the worst sort and completely unreliable as a source.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    Where did you read this?
    Iceymom, in this very thread, gave the name and other personal details of the victim. Just because admins deleted the post and gave her the boot doesn't mean people didn't see it and don't have a right to be completely disgusted with her and slam her for it. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with her and everything to do with bad behavior on her part.
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  13. #133
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    What an awful thing for everyone involved. I don't know the legal process, but is it possible that USFS and PSA were advised by the district attornys already investigating the case? For some reason, I thought I read somewhere that the current USFS president was a lawyer herself, so I wouldn't imagine her doing anything that would put the organization in jeopardy. If the records were sealed or in the case of an accusation not yet brought to trial, would that even show up on a CORI check? If it wouldn't then technically, I think he'd still be in compliance with USFS requirements (ie. passing a CORI check and PSA courses). In these situations, it seems like an impossibility to protect the rights of both the alleged victim and the alleged accused before a judgement is handed down in a court of law. I'm also really surprised by the previous poster who was trying to identify the alleged victim. It probably takes a court order to have the admins of this site turn over the posting details of that person, but if I understand technology correctly, that would give them the physical location of his/her computer. Even if you believe this is a witch hunt, you still have to respect those involved and let it get worked out through the justice system.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwgrant View Post
    Ive been reading these posts with some interest since I know Genrikh and many of the other coaches at Gardens and many of the folks on this forum. So hopefully what I can add may be of some use. First, Icymom is correct when she talks about Genrikh. His reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer are stellar.
    I will have to disagree with Icymom's and your statement, not everyone feels the same about his reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer. Genrikh was a beautiful ice dancer, but that doesn't always carry over to becoming a great coach or an upstanding member of society.
    When I first heard the "alleged" news my first reaction along with several of the skating circle I know was...can't say I was surprised or shocked!

    Icymom's statement below is disgusting! I'll also add that not all of his former students are providing their good wishes or support.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    Unfortunately, there are many twists and turns to this story, and the veracity, sexual activity with others and mental health status of the accuser will certainly be a very large issues. Sretenski has been coaching for years, and not one other student has come forward with allegations, to the contrary everyone including past and present students are providing and have been providing for the past year, their good wishes and support to him, which signals that this accuser has other motivations. The accuser will not be unscathed in all of this, and I am sure as in most cases, she does not realize what she has done to herself.
    Last edited by Cocomo; 09-08-2012 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Needed to add "alleged."

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwgrant View Post
    ....Genrikh was sought and a switch of coaching staff was requested. For most, this request was denied and teams either left, as with Bonacorsi and Mager, or quit, as with Friedenberg and Nykiel. In this case, the request was accepted and Genrikh became the head coach. .....
    Oh, so B/M's move to Linichuck/Karponosov in Delaware 2 yrs ago was a step down from staying with Genrich at Gardens?

    Other than that, I agree with most of what you've written, kwgrant.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwgrant View Post
    One last piece people may find interesting. At the time of the incident, the family filed an ethics violation grievance against Sretenski with the USFS and PSA and told the rink what had happened. The USFS accepted the case but no investigation ensued because of the pending court cases in PG County and NY. I always found this odd because this inaction put the USFA and Gardens at risk for knowing something was brewing and looking the other way. Lots of young girls and boys were placed in the hands of these coaches. I think some investigation would have been better than none. This may be at the heart of the civil suit.
    I may be reading this wrong or misinterpeting this. I hope I am. He was still coaching for a year after the complaint was made? USFSA did not take any action against him even with a serious complaint on file?

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by valyrian View Post
    I may be reading this wrong or misinterpeting this. I hope I am. He was still coaching for a year after the complaint was made? USFSA did not take any action against him even with a serious complaint on file?
    Correct. Apparently the pending court activity started over a year ago trumped even a hint of an investigation by the skating world. Go figure. Sort of like the NCAA and Penn State. Even with Genrikh in jail, USFS is still discussing whether to just investigate the ethics charges. These charges have a much lower burden of proof and not all that much weight one way or the other. But not to even investigate is a strange path to take long after CPS found that the charges were credible and NY has thought enough to issue a warrant for his arrest.
    Last edited by kwgrant; 09-09-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Oh, so B/M's move to Linichuck/Karponosov in Delaware 2 yrs ago was a step down from staying with Genrich at Gardens?

    Other than that, I agree with most of what you've written, kwgrant.
    For B/M the move was a good one. I was only relaying that neither wanted to move. They just wanted to switch from an American focused approach to a Russian approach with Genrikh. When the coaches denied the request they moved to PA b
    Last edited by kwgrant; 09-09-2012 at 12:28 AM.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomo View Post
    I will have to disagree with Icymom's and your statement, not everyone feels the same about his reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer. Genrikh was a beautiful ice dancer, but that doesn't always carry over to becoming a great coach or an upstanding member of society.
    When I first heard the "alleged" news my first reaction along with several of the skating circle I know was...can't say I was surprised or shocked!

    Icymom's statement below is disgusting! I'll also add that not all of his former students are providing their good wishes or support.
    I'm glad she was bounced too. Trying to deliberately hurt someone who has already been betrayed is cowardly for sure. My point was that the family liked Genrikh and never saw anything like this coming.

    If you know something I'm sure the police would love to know. Everyone was aware of the locker room humor and the verbal denigration of many of the girls at the rink. Whatever you know that reflects your lack of surprise at this should be presented to the authorities.
    Last edited by kwgrant; 09-08-2012 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Added additional information

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Arthur Werner is a mud-raker of the worst sort and completely unreliable as a source.


    Iceymom, in this very thread, gave the name and other personal details of the victim. Just because admins deleted the post and gave her the boot doesn't mean people didn't see it and don't have a right to be completely disgusted with her and slam her for it. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with her and everything to do with bad behavior on her part.
    Agree completely. If you knew her you would know this is something she would do in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by kwgrant; 09-09-2012 at 12:29 AM.

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