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  1. #101
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    What did TAT say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Really? I thought most people in this thread were advocating the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset, towards both the accused and the alleged victim. I thought most people were finding it cringeworthy that someone would publically "out" the alleged victim by gender, name, situation, and slander that person here. Perhaps I'm biased, but I think considering the insidious nature of what this thread could, and may still become, it's been mostly compassionate and even-minded, with one notable exception.
    This!

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    What did TAT say?
    Well she praises Sretenski as a hard-working, nice and decent person and criticizes the American approach to coaching "without touching the student" and that it's impossible without it.

    This comment reminds me of a documentary I saw about an American girl who made it to the Bolshoi Ballet Academy in Moscow and she said that it was an entirely new experience for her that the teachers there actually do touch the students to show them how to do this or that movement correctly and that something like this would be impossible in America.

    Since we don't know what exactly happened last year in Lake Placid I don't know whether TAT (who probably knows a bit more...who knows) is even considering "serious" sexual assault.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    If TAT is right, what good comes of it? "See, I told you so?"
    He's not the only one being sued. The rink and the club are both part of the civil suit, I assume because both accused coach and alleged victim were allowed to train together after the report of abuse was filed with the police. This could take them all down. We will see once the info becomes public, but it is a very curious situation imo when a skater files a police report and the club not only keeps the accused on and active, but seems to rally behind him. Skating imo, remains like 30 years behind the times always.

  5. #105

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    But working under the "innocent until proven guilty" precident, why should Stretenski be forced to give up his emplyment solely based on an accusation - before any charges were filed?

    Sexual assault is one of those crimes where the public assumes that the accused MUST be guilty simply because someone made an accusation.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    But working under the "innocent until proven guilty" precident, why should Stretenski be forced to give up his emplyment solely based on an accusation - before any charges were filed?

    Sexual assault is one of those crimes where the public assumes that the accused MUST be guilty simply because someone made an accusation.
    Because a primary concern of schools, clubs etc,.. is to provide a safe environment for their underage pupils. As soon as he was accused he should have been placed on paid leave pending the outcome of an investigation. Keeping him on and in contact with students doesn't say "we have no opinion until proof is available" it says "we believe him over her".

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    He's not the only one being sued. The rink and the club are both part of the civil suit, I assume because both accused coach and alleged victim were allowed to train together after the report of abuse was filed with the police. This could take them all down. We will see once the info becomes public, but it is a very curious situation imo when a skater files a police report and the club not only keeps the accused on and active, but seems to rally behind him. Skating imo, remains like 30 years behind the times always.
    When I commented, "What good comes out of it," I meant what good comes out of TAT's current comments if Sretenski is acquitted? His acquittal will speak for itself.

    O-

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Because a primary concern of schools, clubs etc,.. is to provide a safe environment for their underage pupils. As soon as he was accused he should have been placed on paid leave pending the outcome of an investigation.
    Is he an employee of the rink?

    If not, if he gets no income directly from the rink and all directly from his students and their parents, the rink can't place him on leave, paid or otherwise, because they were never paying him or employing him in the first place. Same for the skating club, if he ever teaches on club ice.

    They could only ban/suspend him from using their ice, or not.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    ...Keeping him on and in contact with students doesn't say "we have no opinion until proof is available" it says "we believe him over her".
    Yeah, just ask the Penn State Athletic Dept. about keeping accused folks on.

    With regard to TAT's comments, I'm willing to cut her some slack. She spoke about 'touching' in Russian vs US methods of teaching and most likely had not read all of the allegations of this case. I'm guessing that a reporter mentioned to her that the allegations involved 'touching' so TAT naturally thinks about touching while teaching, such as correcting positions. I would bet that TAT did not think about 'touching' as in allegedly fondling a student off the ice, in a bedroom or in some hidden corner of an ice rink.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    This comment reminds me of a documentary I saw about an American girl who made it to the Bolshoi Ballet Academy in Moscow and she said that it was an entirely new experience for her that the teachers there actually do touch the students to show them how to do this or that movement correctly and that something like this would be impossible in America.
    Are you serious teachers cannot touch the student to put their arm, leg, head in the right position in ballet class now? Jeez, they used to yank us all over the place. There is a huge difference between touching someone to correct their posture or leg line and inappropriate touching. It never felt skeevy to get a physical correction until this one teacher who showed up when I was in 9th grade. We all knew the difference right away. When he came by me or my friends to correct us, we would say "don't touch me" and he didn't. Then he asked an underage student to marry him, and he got dragged into court and fired. Then other students from other schools came forward....
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    But working under the "innocent until proven guilty" precident, why should Stretenski be forced to give up his emplyment solely based on an accusation - before any charges were filed?
    Because "innocent until proven guilty" is about how the courts operate. It has nothing to do with how businesses or individual people operate. It just means that in countries that operate according to this principle, the burden of proof is on the prosecutor and not the defendant. In other countries, the burden is on the defendant to prove he's not guilty.

    That's really all it means.

    It doesn't mean we can't express our opinions about this case on the internet and it doesn't mean a business can't have rules employees must follow that include things like they can't even be arrested or they are fired.
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  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Are you serious teachers cannot touch the student to put their arm, leg, head in the right position in ballet class now? Jeez, they used to yank us all over the place. There is a huge difference between touching someone to correct their posture or leg line and inappropriate touching. It never felt skeevy to get a physical correction until this one teacher who showed up when I was in 9th grade. We all knew the difference right away. When he came by me or my friends to correct us, we would say "don't touch me" and he didn't. Then he asked an underage student to marry him, and he got dragged into court and fired. Then other students from other schools came forward....
    And it's more or less what TAT is saying:

    "Вести ФМ": Я смотрю, по тому, что вы говорите, вы удивлены.
    Тарасова: Я вам хочу сказать, что вот это сейчас началось: "без прикосновений", а как учить-то без прикосновений? Пусть мне расскажут, как учить без прикосновений!

    Vesti FM: You sound surprised
    TAT: Let me tell you all that `no touching thing' now. How are you supposed to teach without touching? I want someone to explain me how!

    So yes, I reckon she is talking about the teaching touching, not the after-hours-in-the-hotel

  13. #113
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    My ice dance coach touched me all the time. It's kind of hard to work on compulsory dances without touching.

    But he never touched me in a hotel room and certainly he had no reason to touch my breasts even during a lesson.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Really? I thought most people in this thread were advocating the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset, towards both the accused and the alleged victim. I thought most people were finding it cringeworthy that someone would publically "out" the alleged victim by gender, name, situation, and slander that person here. Perhaps I'm biased, but I think considering the insidious nature of what this thread could, and may still become, it's been mostly compassionate and even-minded, with one notable exception.


    Quote Originally Posted by valyrian View Post
    This thread makes me regret joining FSU.

    I can't believe the willingness to defend a possible child molester. I can't believe there are people dragging out a plot point from a TV show to defend him.
    Do you have reading comprehension problems? Because I specifically stated
    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Disclaimer - I'm not saying this happened here, just that mention of texts in this lawsuit made me think of Mars vs. Mars.
    And FYI, in the TV show, the teacher ended up being guilty. So I'm clearly not drawing any conclusions about Sretenski here, just making an observation.


    Like many other sane posters in this thread, I will make NO assumptions about any of the parties involved. The courts will weigh the evidence and decide what really happened. What's so sad is that no matter what the court decision is, nobody wins.
    Last edited by pollyanna; 09-07-2012 at 11:16 PM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    But working under the "innocent until proven guilty" precident, why should Stretenski be forced to give up his emplyment solely based on an accusation - before any charges were filed?
    The primary patrons & members of skating rinks & skating clubs are minors. So once the rink or club becomes aware of any type of problem like this, it becomes a risk management issue.

    According to the articles, it sounds like a police report was probably filed & PG Co social services was probably contacted, so it's a good guess that managers of the rink and directors of an affiliated skating organization may have had an awareness of the problem prior to a lawsuit filed in July. If they permitted him to continue to teach under those circumstances, then they are going to face liability issues.

    Whether you advocate for the "innocent until proven guility" theory or not, a coach is in a position of power when it comes to minors. No matter what physical contact occurred or may end up being proven, the text messages alone are inappropriate for such an authority figure to send to a minor. Nothing more than that is needed for a rink or club to conclude there could be liability issues if teaching privileges are not restricted.

    It's not surprising when something like this finally happens at some of these private facilities that have allowed (even encouraged) home school kids to spend extensive daytime hours at the rink, often with inadequate supervision. Many of the other rinks in this area are operated by the park authorities, so they tend to act much more quickly (up to & including contacting the park police or social services themselves) when they become aware of these types of problems.

  16. #116
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    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bre...,5963830.story

    some more details of the accusations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bre...,5963830.story

    some more details of the accusations.
    Hmm, looks like the reporter who wrote this story was reading FSU. Not carefully enough, apparently.

    Though long out of competition, Sretenski's name is well-known in skating circles. Skating forums buzzed comment and speculation about the criminal charges. Some noted that in his tenure as a coach, these were the only such allegations made against him.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by pollyanna View Post
    Like many other sane posters in this thread, I will make NO assumptions about any of the parties involved. The courts will weigh the evidence and decide what really happened. What's so sad is that no matter what the court decision is, nobody wins.
    But if your daughter was one of his students would you continue to take lessons from him?

    Just curious.

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    It happend just recently, in Russia there was a case of well-know pianist, professor of one of the best muscial schools in Moscow Anatoly Riabov, now 66, who was accused in sexual harrassment toward a minor by mother of his 13 y.o. student. A couple of weeks ago Riabov was proven not guilty. There was a big discussion in Russian media, and TAT's husband, pianist Vladimir Krainev (he was alive then), wrote a letter of support for Riabov to the Russia's Minister of Culture. The acusation from the mother appeared right after the professor decided to stop teaching this girl due to his high workload. Muscial circles, Riabov's colleagues and the school all supported the professor.

    Arthur Werner, who is not the most reliable source but usually has some information from insiders, sais something similar to what TAT said. He thinks it is not possible to teach a student without touching. He also sees this case as "revenge of girl's father for his unfulfiled dreams about her career". There are two comments on his forum, in case if someone is interested to read.

    I am not saying that this case is similar to Riabov's case or that you have to trust TAT or Werner. I just think it is not right to slam Iceymom or any other poster who has different opinion. It does not mean that they support a child molester. This only means they see this situation differently, at least, at this point. This other side also has to be heard.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Lola_ View Post
    Arthur Werner, who is not the most reliable source but usually has some information from insiders, sais something similar to what TAT said. He thinks it is not possible to teach a student without touching. He also sees this case as "revenge of girl's father for his unfulfiled dreams about her career". There are two comments on his forum, in case if someone is interested to read.
    I think Werner is the worst possible advocate to bring. Taking half of his articles are about made up sexual life of skaters/coaches and he is mainly busy writing about skater's bust size (minors included) and had he be writing in English he would be sued after every 2nd article. I also don't recall Werner ever even trying to be polite about the women, so yes, if Werner says a man is not guilty in a sex scandal I'd jump to a conclusion the guy is guilty as hell

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