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  1. #41

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    Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past. I've no doubt that Iceymom is speaking the truth when she says neither she, nor anyone she knows of, has experienced anything untoward from Sretenski. So when allegations like this come about it's only natural that she would want to jump to his defence. Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so. She's probably stressed about this and angry at the allegations so I think she isn't expressing herself as calmly as she could, which is perfectly natural. Not right but understandable.

    None of this changes whether the allegations are true or not. I hope they're not but we just don't know. All I want to say is that if someone I knew personally was accused of something like this and I was convinced they were innocent, I might not be able to express myself with grace either. This is a really touchy subject (no pun intended ) and it's easy for both sides to get heated.

    I for one am glad that Iceymom has come forward as something of a character witness defending Sretenski here. It can't be easy. I like to think the best of my favourite skaters so when nasty rumours come about I like to hope they aren't true for my own selfish fandom. At least from Iceymom's posts he appears not to be a total sleazeball. If he's guilty, I hope he is punished but I also really hope that he is innocent.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.
    The bolded part of your post is the problem. It's one thing to express support for someone you worked with (or whatever the case might be) and talk about your good experience dealing with the man. And then say something along the lines of hopefully we can all reserve judgment on this until all the facts are known. On the other hand, bringing up problems and issues of the alleged victim only makes you look like you have an axe to grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so
    No one said she shouldn't chime in. In fact I agree it's good to hear from other skaters or their parents. Presenting that opinion as fact (while belittling the skater who came forward) is the issue here...Hopefully you're right and this is just a case of posting while being too emotional.
    Last edited by ioana; 09-05-2012 at 11:35 PM.

  3. #43

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    Given that the majority of skaters who compete at the Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships (which I'm assuming is the event, since there was no JGP last year) are *minors* and that according to the Associate Press article Sylvia linked to above said the charges are sealed, I would be extra careful about mentioning the accuser or identifying details.

  4. #44
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    Sometimes victims aren't really victims either.

    I had a work placement at a school with children/teens with a variety of disabilities and was warned never to be alone with one teenaged student because she had a history of making up stories about people who worked there, irregardless of gender. No charges were ever laid, no evidence of wrongdoing ever came up, and staff knew everything to be false (and this school has a tremendous reputation), but it caused everyone who worked there a lot of trauma because of the investigations and the nature of the allegations and they never knew when she would make up something else because she chose to remain at the school. Every newcomer had to be warned in order to protect themselves. I"m just saying that sometimes there are cases where everyone does know that the accuser is making things up and it is because of her own issues. It has no other connection to this case.

    As for this case, it's upsetting to hear of any allegations of this type, and i hope that whatever happened is properly investigated and the truth comes out, whatever it is.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past. I've no doubt that Iceymom is speaking the truth when she says neither she, nor anyone she knows of, has experienced anything untoward from Sretenski. So when allegations like this come about it's only natural that she would want to jump to his defence. Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so. She's probably stressed about this and angry at the allegations so I think she isn't expressing herself as calmly as she could, which is perfectly natural. Not right but understandable.
    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    It's one thing to express support for someone you worked with (or whatever the case might be) and talk about your good experience dealing with the man. And then say something along the lines of hopefully we can all reserve judgment on this until all the facts are known. On the other hand, bringing up problems and issues of the alleged victim only makes you look like you have an axe to grind.

    No one said she shouldn't chime in. In fact I agree it's good to hear from other skaters or their parents. Presenting that opinion as fact (while belittling the skater who came forward) is the issue here...Hopefully you're right and this is just a case of posting while being too emotional.
    I agree with ioana that the problem with iceymom's posts was not that she defended Sretenski, but that she made unfounded insinuations against the alleged victim. Iceymom also revealed the gender of the alleged victim which was all kinds of wrong. Obviously the authorities want this information sealed for now. See the bolded parts of her posts below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    Unfortunately, there are many twists and turns to this story, and the veracity, sexual activity with others and mental health status of the accuser will certainly be a very large issues. Sretenski has been coaching for years, and not one other student has come forward with allegations, to the contrary everyone including past and present students are providing and have been providing for the past year, their good wishes and support to him, which signals that this accuser has other motivations. The accuser will not be unscathed in all of this, and I am sure as in most cases, she does not realize what she has done to herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    There are some clear facts here that the public should know, none of his past or current students have made allegations against him and truly support him and have been supporting him since the accuser came forward last year, with the exception of his accuser, who has her own issues to worry about that will be revealed in time.
    I have admired and respected Sretenski for years, and I hope he is innocent, but I do not think we should make any assumptions about his accuser.

  6. #46

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    No I totally agree that Iceymom shouldn't have started slinging mud at the victim. I'm just saying I understand if she's lashing out because she's angry about the accusations and/or knows the victim. That said, she's not doing herself or Sretenski any favours by it. I hope she comes back to the thread because she's clearly got an insider's perspective, but I hope she does so in a less antagonistic manner.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past.
    Or maybe she's Sretenski's wife. Or some anonymous crackpot posting on the Internet.

  8. #48

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    wrong thread

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    No I totally agree that Iceymom shouldn't have started slinging mud at the victim. I'm just saying I understand if she's lashing out because she's angry about the accusations and/or knows the victim. That said, she's not doing herself or Sretenski any favours by it. I hope she comes back to the thread because she's clearly got an insider's perspective, but I hope she does so in a less antagonistic manner.
    insider perspective on how sretenski treats her and her kid, maybe. how does she know how he treats everyone else? is she with sretenski 24/7?

    of course it's upsetting to hear that someone you trust has been accused of something vile. but to conclude that you know enough to declare sretenski wrongly accused... to insinuate that the accuser will get what's coming to 'her'... when at this moment the identity/gender of the accuser hasn't even been revealed?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Or maybe she's Sretenski's wife. Or some anonymous crackpot posting on the Internet.
    Or someone who absolutely should not be posting about this on an internet discussion board.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  11. #51

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    Just saw updated report on the local NBC4 tv station (approx 5:45AM, EST):

    Sretenski's extradition hearing was delayed til today.

    NBC4 obtained a complete copy of the Civil Lawsuit document in Prince George's County: The alleged incident happened in Sretenski's hotel room in Lake Placid in August 2011. Prior to the incident, Sretenski sent the victim over 500 text messages professing his passion and asking for meeting.

    Victim's attorney, Mr. Zambri, was briefly interviewed on-camera, repeating that he has all of the text messages and other evidence to prove the charges.
    Last edited by Frau Muller; 09-06-2012 at 12:15 PM. Reason: small changes after reviewing my tape of the NBC4 report

  12. #52

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    An additional report on NBC4 at 6:35AM, with a bit more info:

    Salvatore Zambri, the victim's attorney, states that his client, the alleged victim, is a 16-yr-old female student of Sretenski at the Gardens ice arena in Laurel, MD. She was kissed and "fondled in the chest" after the defendant led her to his hotel room in Lake Placid...NBC4's camera scanned a page of text from the Civil Lawsuit document, including those words. [The page of text shown on camera also showed the beginning of a paragraph "...the kissing continued after Lake Placid, in Laurel..." but the reporter did not speak those words, as with the above.]

    The rest of the brief report was the same as shown earlier (my previous post).

    p.s. - My own thoughts: Not to say that it is not awful...but if kissing and fondling of the chest is what happened, I don't know how yesterday's information from Sretenski's attorney -- that the coach has been charged with sexual assault in the 1st and 3rd degrees + 'forcible touching' -- jibes with this. I thought that 1st degree was rape/penetration. (???) Maybe the victim is withdrawing some of the original allegations? Hard to tell.
    Last edited by Frau Muller; 09-06-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: small changes after I reviewed my tape of the NBC4 report

  13. #53

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    why, why why do professionals and otherwise carry on with texting? It is recorded FOREVER. See former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Not laying blame or guilt...just that texts can be damning whether they are innocent or not. Heck, not using the right emoticon on FSU can generate a 5 page debate.
    "awwww....shades of Janet Lynn" - Dick Button on anyone who makes more than one mistake in their program.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatemommy View Post
    why, why why do professionals and otherwise carry on with texting? It is recorded FOREVER. See former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Not laying blame or guilt...just that texts can be damning whether they are innocent or not. Heck, not using the right emoticon on FSU can generate a 5 page debate.
    Surely we should be glad that thanks to text messages there is often more evidence rather than less? The interpretation of evidence is another issue, but how can it be better to have less evidence to interpret?

    As for text messages being innocent, if there are indeed 500 of them, even if a few are ambiguous, hopefully the whole 500 together will give a correct picture.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    p.s. - My own thoughts: Not to say that it is not awful...but if kissing and fondling of the chest is what happened, I don't know how yesterday's information from Sretenski's attorney -- that the coach has been charged with sexual assault in the 1st and 3rd degrees + 'forcible touching' -- jibes with this. I thought that 1st degree was rape/penetration. (???) Maybe the victim is withdrawing some of the original allegations? Hard to tell.
    No, you've misinterpreted the NY legal system re: what's first degree and etc.

    In NY State as I understand it, sexual abuse in the first degree is sexual contact (includes above the clothing) by force or threat of force, or when the individual is incapable of consenting due to mental deficiency, or when the individual is below age 17.

    In the third degree, it is sexual contact (including above the clothing) when one person is over age 21 and the other is less than 17 years old.

    Those are felonies.

    Forcible touching is when someone touches the body of someone else with the intention of, basically, either degrading that person or getting his own rocks off. (Obviously, that's not legal speak.)

    That's a misdemeanor.

    So it seems the state is going after him based on the fact that he touched without consent, and because she is underage. But certainly, others who are more in the know on the NY State legal system should chime in and correct me if I got anything wrong.

    And again; these are charges, not convictions.
    And so, dear Lord, it is with deep sadness that we turn over to you this young woman, whose dream to ride on a giant swan resulted in her death. Maybe it is your way of telling us... to buy American.

  16. #56

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    Thanks, GAH. So it jibes with what this morning's TV report and the court document state. It's still terrible, no matter what - above clothing, below clothing, etc.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv View Post
    Sometimes victims aren't really victims either.
    True, although I do believe that false accusations do more harm to true victims than they do to the falsely accused. Iceymom's posts are typical. She immediately goes on the offense, not just defending the coach but trashing the student. Totally uncalled for.

    Once my sil confided in my sister that she thought my brother was cheating. Both my sisters and my mom got on the blower and felt the need to tell everyone they knew that my poor poor brother couldn't even go on a buisness trip without his crazy bitch of a wife trashing his good name. In this case, he was indeed off bumping uglies with a floozie, that was his "business", but that's beside the point. Even if he was innocent, there was no need for my brother's "protectors" to use this incident as one more excuse to trash talk a woman they disliked.

    How are true victims suppose to feel comfortable going public if people continue to vilify any accuser even before they know if the accusations are true or not?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frau Muller View Post
    Thanks, GAH. So it jibes with what this morning's TV report and the court document state. It's still terrible, no matter what - above clothing, below clothing, etc.
    It might be "terrible, no matter what", but at this point it is all ALLEGED because none of the charges have been proven in court and no one has been convicted of anything. So please, anyone who is relaying reports from other sources, make this clear when you are posting.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  19. #59

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    I and many others contributing to this thread are 'on record' having written the word 'alleged' a gazillion times. I don't think that we need to over-allege in every single sentence, overedge. Point taken, nonetheless.

  20. #60

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    In the US, someone is presumed innocent, until proven guilty.
    We should remember that, before we assume that the allegations are true.

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