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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    As far as most of us are concerned, there are no available facts at all. We're not insiders and there's nothing for us to even have an opinion about.

    Except your posts. And you aren't making people sympathetic to your point of view.

    In fairness to all involved, there's really nothing to be said at this time about this. There simply isn't any public information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Innocent until proven guilty- that's how I treat this right now.

    I loved Annenko & Sretenski. I hope he did not do anything wrong, but if he did, let the courts determine that.
    This.

  2. #22
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    Insight based upon those who have knowledge not known to many, and are not outsiders like many of you on this sight are not appreciated, so no more insight into the reality shall be provided.
    Thousands of worthless statements based upon opinion and speculation are valued over those who actually know what is going on. Sad but true.

    I was sadly mistaken that the skating community would want to know positive insight into a very sad situation.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    .... The accuser ... she does not realize what she has done to herself.
    Who ever said that the accuser is a female? None of the in-print articles say so. If true, its a horrible crime that can be committed against a person of either sex. For now: innocent until proven guilty.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    NOT HEARSAY, FACT! Personal knowledge.
    My problem is not with your "facts" but with the conclusions you draw from them. You seem to be saying that he is proven innocent because he only has one accuser. Nonsense! You also seem to be saying that his accuser is a proven liar because she has personal issues know to many. Again, nonsense IMHO. If you honestly believe that preditors don't pick on the vulnerable, then I
    don't know what to say, but even if what you are saying is fact (there's only one accuser and she has personal problems), none of that proves anything other than there is currently only one accuser and the accuser has issues. Absolutely nothing you are saying proves guilt or innocense of either party. You're just spreading nasty gossip, like a typical "skating mom".

  5. #25

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    Don't feed the troll, people.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    I was sadly mistaken that the skating community would want to know positive insight into a very sad situation.
    Maybe if you phrased this as 'allow me to assure you of the following as *XY credential* (i.e., other coach at the rink, skating mom who worked with the coaches, etc)', we'd have been more receptive. Your first post started questioning "The Accuser" and her issues, without providing any real insight into the situation --besides your own bias. Posters responded accordingly.

    Skepticism shouldn't come as a shock, especially given how new you are to the board, or how you chose to broach the subject

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    NOT HEARSAY, FACT! Personal knowledge.
    Fine, have you been with him 24/7 for the last few years? The fact is that you have no chance of being 100% certain that he didn't do it, unless you have spent every minute in his company. All you are saying is your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact.

    We are not saying that he IS guilty, I do agree with 'innocent until proven guilty'; we are saying that we don't know at this moment and whatever you are saying is not going to influence me either way. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

  8. #28
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    No, it is hearsay because we have no facts. It may be a fact to you, but to everyone on this forum it is hearsay.

    If the 'facts' are going to prove him to be innocent, then you should back off and let the facts speak for themselves, because quite frankly all you are doing is making him look like a guilty weasel by the way you are posting.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    NOT HEARSAY, FACT! Personal knowledge.
    Have you talked to the police ? Because if there is actually a fact, that's where it has to be reported.
    "I missed the view and viewed the mist..." ©

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    NOT HEARSAY, FACT! Personal knowledge.
    Anything you report that other people said and did is hearsay if you didn't witness them saying/doing it. By definition.

    Since you couldn't possibly have talked to every single one of Sretenski's past and current students, then saying that none of them have done this and all of them believe that is, by definition, hearsay.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Anything you report that other people said and did is hearsay if you didn't witness them saying/doing it. By definition.

    Since you couldn't possibly have talked to every single one of Sretenski's past and current students, then saying that none of them have done this and all of them believe that is, by definition, hearsay.
    How or why would you assume, that someone does not know his current or past students?? Ice dance is a very small community.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    Sretenski has been coaching for years, and not one other student has come forward with allegations, to the contrary everyone including past and present students are providing and have been providing for the past year, their good wishes and support to him, which signals that this accuser has other motivations.
    No, it doesn't. Even if the first part were true, the part in bold is opinion: a conclusion you've drawn for yourself, and thus not fact at all.

  13. #33
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    I sincerely hope that Mr. Sretenski is innocent, I loved him as a skater and in meeting him on a couple of occasions, he always acted like a true gentleman. I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this? There is some bad karma for Russian skaters in Lake Placid--still cannot forget Lutai's incident.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorganaLefay View Post
    I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this?
    Because demonizing a victim is wrong. She should hold off on her strong and one sided opinions until all of the facts are known, not jump to conclusions based on predisposed prejudices. Or, go ahead and give those opinions and risk being criticized

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by MorganaLefay View Post
    ...I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this?...
    She is insisting that her opinions are facts.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  16. #36
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    Iceymom, unless you were present when the alleged events occurred, all you have is one side of the story. His, I presume. That does not make it fact.

    Just because no one else has come forward, doesn't necessarily mean this is an isolated incident.

    There was a coach in the early 2000's who ended up getting banned for life by USFS after allegations from 1 skater. I know that there were many more before her- they just chose not to go to the authorities for whatever reason.

    I agree with "innocent until proven guilty". Please don't state things as FACT unless you were there. That is the ONLY way to be 100% sure something did or did not happen.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceymom View Post
    How or why would you assume, that someone does not know his current or past students?? Ice dance is a very small community.
    I am well aware of that having been a part of it for over a decade.

    But I didn't say you didn't know some of Sretenski's current and past students. I said unless you had talked to every single one of them, you can't report that they ALL said or did something (or didn't say or do something) as a fact.

    Plus, I am pretty sure you don't know 100% of all his students he has ever had and, even if you did, I am pretty sure you haven't contacted 100% of them to find out their opinions on the matter. I'm also sure that, if a coach had behaved inappropriately to me, that you are the last person I would tell that to as I wouldn't want my private business spread all over the internet and you've demonstrated that you will do just that, if given the chance and if it suits your purposes.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  18. #38
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    The pomposity and self-righteousness in this thread defies belief.

    Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

    It is equally obvs that too many of the rest of you are overreacting instead of just reading it for what it is - postings of someone with an agenda (who just might really know more than you do about it).

    Yes, coaches and others in authority have sometimes abused their students. Yes, there have also been children (and adults) who made up BS to get someone in trouble who turned out to be totally innocent.

    Honestly, none of the rest of us here knows anything about it, certainly not enough to have any opinion one way or the other, so get off your sanctimonious and entirely theoretical high horses.

    When functioning in total ignorance, neutrality is the only sensible course.

  19. #39
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    Associated Press article today: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...849_story.html
    Attorney Rene Sandler said the charges stem from an alleged incident 13 months ago but she declined to release details and noted those details remained under seal. But she said the coach adamantly denies the accusations and she would vigorously defend him.

    “He denies anything improper. Yes, absolutely,” Sandler said, adding that the coach “is a very, very well respected coach in the figure skating community.”
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    The pomposity and self-righteousness in this thread defies belief.

    Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

    It is equally obvs that too many of the rest of you are overreacting instead of just reading it for what it is - postings of someone with an agenda (who just might really know more than you do about it).
    IMHO it's not "overreacting" to respond to someone making very opinionated allegations about a highly sensitive subject, and presenting those allegations as informed fact.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

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