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  1. #1
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    Alternative Ice Dance Parternships

    Before partnering with Gwendal Peizerat, Marina Anissina won 2 Junior world titles with Ilia Averbukh. If Anissina & Averbukh continued their partnership, how would they have fared against G&P, K&O, B&K, R&K and the other skaters of that era? Would they have challenged K&O for the silver medal in Nagano? For that matter, if Marina had partnered with Victor Kraatz instead, how would Anissina & Kraatz have fared against G&P, K&O, L&A, FP&M, N&K etc, etc.

    If Grishuk & Platov and Usova & Zhulin made the great (on) ice partner swap after the 1992 Worlds, instead of Nagano, how would the team of G&Z fare against U&P in the 1992-1993 and 1993-1994 season? For that matter, when Grishuk left Dubova's group in 1992, Platov skated with Navka for 3 months. If Navka & Platov had formed a partnership at that time, how would they done against U&Z, a returning T&D and all of the other teams in 1992-1998? Would you see them dominating the 1994-1998 quad like G&P did? Or, would they be more susceptible to being challenged for the gold by a K&O, or A&P or another team?

    All of these teams have had a great deal of success with their partners, what 'alternative partnerships' do you think could have been even more successful than the original in terms of medals?

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    I know I'm in the minority but I liked Usova/Platov better than Usova/Zhulin. For some reason Usova/Zhulin always reminded me of Popeye and Oliver Oyl. She looked uber thin in tights and leotards and always wore her hair tightly pulled back to reveal her huge forehead, while he looked short and stocky next to her. I also hated the way Zhulin seemed to haul her around on his back like a sack of potatoes. They just looked physically mismatched to me.

    I think Usova looked more elegant and feminine with Platov. They both had long lines and he seemed to treat her with tenderness as a partner.

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    aliceanne, I know what you mean. I was a big fan of both partnerships but I agree that with Platov there was a tenderness that wasn't there with Zhulin. I read an article in which Maya wondered aloud what things would have been like had she found Platov as a partner earlier. Sigh.

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    I'm not sure about the other things, but I don't think Grishuk and Zhulin would have been any match for Usova and Platov had the swap happened earlier. Usova and Platov continuously defeated Grishuk and Zhulin in the pro ranks. Plus, I think Grishuk and Zhulin might have fought too much in training.

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    I would put Zhulin with Navka. Grishuk is also too long-limbed for him.

    I remember Zhulin saying in an interview that Grishuk liked to improvise which I would think would be hard on her partner.
    Last edited by aliceanne; 04-27-2013 at 03:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I would have put Zhulin with Navka. Grishuk was also too long-limbed for him.

    I remember Zhulin saying in an interview that Grishuk liked to improvise which I would think would be hard on her partner.
    I remember reading not that long ago on FSU (can't remember what thread though) that Navka & Zhulin did try skating together, but didn't think it would work, because she was too tall for him. At least that's what I remember reading. You can judge for yourself here though: http://youtu.be/km1dxT4ka2s

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    I'd much rather see Usova matched with Navka ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jot the Dot Dot View Post
    I'd much rather see Usova matched with Navka ;-)
    Ha! That would be one uber sexy couple.

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    Hmmm.....

    Anissina/Averbukh: You know, I think we would've seen a replay of the 1988/1992 dance or 1994 pairs events. I don't think a Russian sweep was going to happen, so they would've ended up fourth and B/K ending up third. They would make the leap over B/K by Worlds 1999 at the latest (probably Worlds 1998) and gone to win SLC (I don't think they'd lose to FP/M in 2001, but that might be wishful thinking).

    Anissina/Kraatz: About the same as he did with Bourne, though maybe they win Worlds earlier.

    Navka/Platov: They wouldn't have won 1994 OG and I think K/O would've eclipsed them by Nagano.

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    Or Grishuk with Christopher Dean or Scott Moir.

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    Grishuk & Zhulin were amazing together. They were so fast and fluid, and Grishuk's skating in those programs was more relaxed and elegant (perhaps due to having retired, and not the partner switch). I loved their Enigma program, so they would've been voidy.

    Their lack of pro titles doesn't matter to me. The pro events were basically a joke and they didn't want to reward "the adulterers." Also, Zhulin said Grishuk was pursuing her Hollywood acting career at the time so they didn't train much. She would fly back and forth from LA. When she was competing though, she was an extremely hard worker, so the situation would've been totally different.

    Anissina & Averbukh would've had a great career. They might very well have been in the silver position, dropping K&O to 4th in 1998. K&O took advantage of a very weak quad to quickly jump to an undisputed second. A&A would've gone senior in 1993 or 1994 and been next in line after G&P. Also IMO individually, A&A were more talented than K&O, so it would not have been so easy for K&O to establish themselves as the #2 team by 1996. Interestingly, I can picture A&A being more like A&P, but they would not have had a French coach, so had they stayed with Linichuk, maybe their choreography would not have been as strong.

    ETA: This isn't based in anything but my fantasy, but I always wanted to see Fusar-Poli with Camerlango. They probably wouldn't have stayed til 2002 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Grishuk & Zhulin were amazing together. They were so fast and fluid, and Grishuk's skating in those programs was more relaxed and elegant (perhaps due to having retired, and not the partner switch). I loved their Enigma program, so they would've been voidy.

    Their lack of pro titles doesn't matter to me. The pro events were basically a joke and they didn't want to reward "the adulterers." Also, Zhulin said Grishuk was pursuing her Hollywood acting career at the time so they didn't train much. She would fly back and forth from LA. When she was competing though, she was an extremely hard worker, so the situation would've been totally different.

    Anissina & Averbukh would've had a great career. They might very well have been in the silver position, dropping K&O to 4th in 1998. K&O took advantage of a very weak quad to quickly jump to an undisputed second. A&A would've gone senior in 1993 or 1994 and been next in line after G&P. Also IMO individually, A&A were more talented than K&O, so it would not have been so easy for K&O to establish themselves as the #2 team by 1996. Interestingly, I can picture A&A being more like A&P, but they would not have had a French coach, so had they stayed with Linichuk, maybe their choreography would not have been as strong.

    ETA: This isn't based in anything but my fantasy, but I always wanted to see Fusar-Poli with Camerlango. They probably wouldn't have stayed til 2002 though.
    If K&O were 4th in '98, who would have been 3rd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    If K&O were 4th in '98, who would have been 3rd?
    Not speaking for Cher, but all other things being equal, IMO, assuming G&P-1st, A&A-2nd, I'd see B&K move up to the third spot.

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    Partner Swap could be a fun pro or exhibition event. Have the top teams perform the compulsory dances with different partners. They could even bring back some of the old divas for added drama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    If K&O were 4th in '98, who would have been 3rd?
    I'm going by Proustable's logic that they don't want sweeps at the Olys so the third Russian team would've been fourth. As lulu said, I had B&K in mind, but now I am thinking about what would have happened to Gwendal? Was there another good French girl of that era for him? What about the potential Fusar-Poli/Camerlengo team that I made up (actually, I think it was Taso who suggested it, years ago)... can't find a Pasquale bio with his height.

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Partner Swap could be a fun pro or exhibition event. Have the top teams perform the compulsory dances with different partners. They could even bring back some of the old divas for added drama.
    This was done in Russia with pairs and dance. Youtube search for Ice Age: Cup of Pros.

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    I often wonder what would have happened with Shae-Lynne Bourne and Peter Tser. They paired up just long enough to get a skating magazine cover and then parted, she to do her singles thing and he to reconnect with Naomi. What do others think of how they would have meshed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrufflet View Post
    I often wonder what would have happened with Shae-Lynne Bourne and Peter
    Tser. They paired up just long enough to get a skating magazine cover and then parted, she to do her singles thing and he to reconnect with Naomi. What do others think of how they would have meshed?
    I thought they were looking to do Olympic eligible competition together. Weren't there citizenship issues? Peter had already been a Russian and U.S. Citizen, how many times could he change? Shae Lynn was a bit of Canadian icon, it might have damaged her pro career to skate for another country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I thought they were looking to do Olympic eligible competition together. Weren't there citizenship issues? Peter had already been a Russian and U.S. Citizen, how many times could he change? Shae Lynn was a bit of Canadian icon, it might have damaged her pro career to skate for another country.
    Shae said she would only skate for Canada. I guess I was thinking more in terms of style, strengths, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrufflet View Post
    Shae said she would only skate for Canada. I guess I was thinking more in terms of style, strengths, etc.
    I don't remember much about Tchernyshev (SP?) as an amateur, but I have seen him and Lang as pros several times and they do adagio style numbers with a lot of daring lifts and unusual moves. Shae Lynn seems to do more Robin Cousins-type dance numbers. Of course there is a big height difference between Peter and Naomi. He might be different with someone else.

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    I think I'm in the minority regarding U&P and G&Z. I absolutely loved G&P, and very much enjoyed U&Z's programs as well; but I just couldn't enjoy either G&Z or U&P to anywhere near the same degree as G&P or U&Z. But, I do think it would be interesting to imagine what G&Z and U&P would have achieved had they actually formed their partnership around 1992, when both couples were either at, or near, the pinnacle of their skating (G&P's high point, IMO, was probably in 1997, but even in 1992 they were still an excellent up and coming team).

    As for Anissina & Averbukh, I can see the argument for them being the 2nd Russian couple after G&P. FWIW, one place A&A would have had an advantage over K&O is that A&A would of had more experience skating together as team. Marina & Ilia were skating together since at least 1989, while Anjelika & Oleg didn't start competing as a team until the 1994-1995 season.

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