U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

[aftershocks]

^^ Yes, definitely. I had forgotten that Mirai is only 19, she's been under such a spotlight for six years. Winning U.S. Nats at age 15 seems to have been more of a burden than a boon.

I wish her well, and its too bad she doesn't have another GP, but she should use her time effectively to prepare for Nationals.

[pinky166]

The 3t on the end of the 2ax was an obvious 1/2 turn underrotation even in real time. Most of her jumps were a bit grind-y and on the slow-mo replay were 1/4 turn cheats. The loops, however, both looked clean to me- they didn't slow-mo the 2nd on the video I watched but it didn't seem in real time to have anything wrong that I could see. If you watch Christina Gao's FS from Skate America to compare, Christina's jumps appear much more effortless and clean.

I wonder if Mirai's issues with URs are somewhat due to the body type she has now. And I don't mean this is a bashing way, to me at CoC she actually looked quite fit, she's just noticeably a sturdier build than most of the other female skaters competitive at this level. Triple jumps, especially ones like lutzes, flips, loops, are hard for women to do period. Mirai is strong and she gets good height on her jumps, but for some reason she just doesn't rotate fast enough in the air to get all the way around before landing. URs have always been an issue for her, and when she was younger I thought it was maybe due to her lacking power being so petite and skinny, then when she grew it got worse, until the time of the Olympics when she managed to clean up her jumps and get them around and not surprisingly, she did very well. But her body has definitely changed since the Olympics, she is by no means fat, and like I said I thought she appeared to be in good shape and quite muscular/toned, I think she just finally reached her adult body type which is probably around 10 pounds heavier than she was at the Olympics. I don't know if losing weight would help with the jumps, I don't think she needs to lose weight anyways, and I think now, even if she isn't quite at her fighting shape, that her new fighting shape would still be bigger than in 2010 just because she's a young woman now and not a 16 year old. But yeah, this is just what I wonder. Her technique seems solid and getting enough height is not the issue with her jumps, so that leaves rotational speed, and obviously it's easier to rotate faster when you are lighter, the key is to just not loose weight to the point where the quickness in rotation gained is not longer helpful due to the power lost.

[olympic]

I just want to say that Mirai's scores belie what she put out on the ice. She went for all of her planned elements including a 3-3 in the SP and managed them w/o falls or step-outs. She looks fitter than ever and yes, there were UR's and downgrades, but I honestly haven't seen her skate w/ such attack since '11 4CC's. I also think her jumps will tighten a little more as the season progresses.

Next week will be interesting - will Gracie focus better? Will Agnes get over the LP curse? Will Caroline finally move her scores up this season to the ranks of the top US ladies

[Ziggy]

I wish she had left Tom Z after her senior debut. I liked her at 14/15 but then she just seemed to hit a glass ceiling. The potential went unrealized.

But that's because of getting taught "quick fix" jumping technique which is not sustainable once you get your adult body.

[Alex Forrest]

^^ Yes, definitely. I had forgotten that Mirai is only 19, she's been under such a spotlight for six years. Winning U.S. Nats at age 15 seems to have been more of a burden than a boon.

I'm pretty sure Nagasu won the Senior National title at 14 y/o. She was maybe two months older than Tara when Tara won her US title.

[smarts1]

Yes, Mirai needs to get to a jump specialist. She still has that weird hooking thing on the landings of her jumps that plagued her years ago. Her jumps travel well and the height she gets on them seems okay - I'm still not sure why she's underrotating the landings. Otherwise, her LP is fairly decent - the music is pleasant enough, and I don't suppose we should expect her to be as exuberant as she was in the SP as that would be a bit repetitive.

It's hard to feel excited about the podium at CoC - between the blandness of Korpi, the sheer flatness of Lipnitskaia (who is borderline frightful on some of her jumps and who, I swear, stuck her leg up whenever she had the opportunity), and a Mao whose technical capabilities have fallen far from where they were only two years ago, there wasn't much to delight in.

I will say this, though - Zijun Li needs to get to a coaching team that can polish her up nicely; she is so pretty that she could be such a star in her native country.

Frank got rid of Mirai's hook landings, but now that she's not with him, they're back (although they're not as bad as they were under Charlene). I think it's really her rotation position and the way she goes up into the jump. She delays the rotation too much and on top of that she doesn't get into a fully tight back spin position, causing her to underrotate he jumps. The reason why her jumps were fully rotated back in 2009-2010 (even though her jumps were smaller then) was because they weren't delayed as much and she acheive a tight backspin position.

As for Mao, I wonder if losing all that weight when her mother was sick had an impact on her power. Her jumps are not as high or big as they used to be and Mao hasn't really gained much of that weight back.

[aftershocks]

I'm pretty sure Nagasu won the Senior National title at 14 y/o. She was maybe two months older than Tara when Tara won her US title.

Yes, you're right. Mirai was a few months away from turning 15 when she won her first Nationals title in 2008. Her birthday is in April.

[Mirai4life]

I'm really disgusted that Kiira girl won over Mirai, let alone Ying Zhang......... got a higher technical mark than Mirai -_____________-
Yuck. Robbery. Disgusting. Rude technical callers n judges. Her second loop is NOT >>

[Vagabond]

Perhaps when Mirai Nagasu does her flips from an inside edge and lands five fully rotated triples in one program the way Korpi did, she will the get higher marks.

[Marco]

Well, true to her Japanese heritage, Nagasu (and Murakami and even Asada) has caught the Nakano syndrome, performing visibly clean performances only to be disappointed in the K&C when most jumps got UR-ed/downgraded.

I think Nagasu has gotten too broad to rotate quickly enough. It's always going to be at the mercy of the caller for her from now on. Some of the jumps at COC I think were border-line. With that kind of treatment internationally, the caller at Nationals will be hard pressed not to be strict on her too. Such a shame.

[olympic]

^I'm not using this as an excuse, but wasn't the caller at CoC extremely tough? I know that a skater shouldn't rely on the whims of a caller, but I wonder if a majority of callers at any other comp would've nailed the skaters (Asada and Lipnitskaya included) the way this caller did ..

[smarts1]

^ Yes, some of the calls that they made were borderline ridiculous.

[Coco]

I think Nagasu has gotten too broad to rotate quickly enough.

Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad. Leonova was on the podium last year and she's "broader" yet magically still fit.

On a related rant, I'm tired of hearing people use the words "lightness" and "heavy" to describe quality of movement.

The only difference between Ashley and Mirai is mental/emotional. Ashley presents her programs, attacks her jumps and competes with confidence.

Obviously those differences are major, but size wise and jump wise, they are very similar. If Ashley can do it, no one should give up on Mirai.

[Marco]

Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad.

I am thinking shoulders.

[Marco]

^I'm not using this as an excuse, but wasn't the caller at CoC extremely tough? I know that a skater shouldn't rely on the whims of a caller, but I wonder if a majority of callers at any other comp would've nailed the skaters (Asada and Lipnitskaya included) the way this caller did ..

The caller was probably tougher than usual, but Nagasu had flip rotation issues at Finlandia too. So I doubt the caller is all to be blamed for her result. It is also unfortunate as well that Nagasu probably has no more internationals before Nationals.

[pinky166]

Oh for chrissakes, she's not too broad. Leonova was on the podium last year and she's "broader" yet magically still fit.

On a related rant, I'm tired of hearing people use the words "lightness" and "heavy" to describe quality of movement.

The only difference between Ashley and Mirai is mental/emotional. Ashley presents her programs, attacks her jumps and competes with confidence.

Obviously those differences are major, but size wise and jump wise, they are very similar. If Ashley can do it, no one should give up on Mirai.

Leonova is maybe sturdier, but she has a very small frame. Mirai does have very broad shoulders, even though otherwise she may be "thinner" than someone like Leonova or Wagner. The higher your center of gravity is, the harder it is to control. I think Mirai is also quite a bit taller than Leonova or Wagner, she certainly has longer legs, and that combined with the broad shoulders probably does mean she has a high center of gravity. Idk how this necessarily relates to under-rotating her jumps, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did make a difference. Some of it is also her technique though, with those hooked landings. She had this issue even as an itty-bitty 13 year old.

[Marco]

But that's because of getting taught "quick fix" jumping technique which is not sustainable once you get your adult body.

The lutz and flip technique in particular

[burntBREAD]

I do hope Mirai can rotate her jumps more quickly -- like others have said, the height and whatnot are fine, but she just rotates sort of slowly. I've also noticed that she has a slight wrap on her jumps as well, surely if she gets a tighter air position, she would be able to rotate more quickly.

[triple_toe]

Mirai's supposed "broad" frame wouldn't be an issue if she had proper technique from the start. She is fit and thin and fine. She had underrotated jumps when she was a tiny 4'10" junior skater, it's not a question of body type, it's a question of poor coaching basics.

[Anita18]

And aren't hips the dangerous place to be "broad" in? Last time I checked, the men didn't usually have problems rotating their jumps. Surely their shoulders are broader than Mirai's.

To me, it looks like her jumps have gotten a bit of a wrap in them. I don't think that helps with rotation.