U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

[leafygreens]

Rachael claims she has had the same "Chronic tendonitis" for the past two years. It's the same old tendonitis excuse for all of her recent competition failures. She needs to rest her body before doing permanent damage, or pack it up and go home. It's painful to watch her, like blades are glued to the ice. In the end it's her decision to put herself out there in sub-par condition, as long as the USFS keeps throwing her competitions.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

[demetriosj]

[QUOTE=Jammers;3719595]If skating isn't her 1st priority anymore then maybe it's time to called it a career./QUOTE]

and who are you to decide this for her?

How many skaters have made skating their "1st priority", only to be tossed to the wayside by USFS once they are injured and not in top form? Good for her to keep skating if she decides to. Don't know why it bothers you so much.

[leafygreens]

[QUOTE=demetriosj;3719651]

If skating isn't her 1st priority anymore then maybe it's time to called it a career./QUOTE]

and who are you to decide this for her?

How many skaters have made skating their "1st priority", only to be tossed to the wayside by USFS once they are injured and not in top form? Good for her to keep skating if she decides to. Don't know why it bothers you so much.

Because it makes the whole country look bad.

Yeah, it's admirable that she's skating and going to school. Nobody is arguing that. But she can do smaller competitions and shows if it's all about the "love" of skating. When she shows up multiple years in a row with the same problems and injury, there are even juniors that can surpass her at this point.

She can skate for the love of it as long as USFS keeps throwing her a bone, but why would they when it reflects on the country. In the end it doesn't matter what priority Rachael is making skating, if she can't skate at the correct level then it's time to go home. She's not the only skater in school so that's not a good enough excuse.

[LilJen]

Rachael claims she has had the same "Chronic tendonitis" for the past two years. It's the same old tendonitis excuse for all of her recent competition failures. She needs to rest her body before doing permanent damage, or pack it up and go home. It's painful to watch her, like blades are glued to the ice. In the end it's her decision to put herself out there in sub-par condition, as long as the USFS keeps throwing her competitions.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

As far as I know, tendonitis requires COMPLETE rest to heal. It may be that she's done some resting, but not *quite* enough, and then she gets back on the ice and trains with great intensity to make up for lost time, and BAM! Tendonitis again. Doesn't seem like she wants to take a year off, but that might be the best thing for her body.

[Jammers]

It's time for Rachael to retire or for the USFSA to retire her. Rachael was out of shape and admitted that skating isn't her priority anymore. So why waste a spot on her when there are hungrier and better skaters waiting in the wings? And i don't care how high she finished at Nationals last year. Overall she was less then mediocre last season and they need to take that into consideration and not just go by Nationals. Even a skater having a bad year can have one good skate like Rachael did but they needed to look at her skating for the whole season not just Nationals. I hope she doesn't get a GP event next year after this bad performance.

[Vagabond]

I have never been a particular fan of Rachael Flatt, though I did rather like her skating at 2007 U.S. Nationals when she was fourteen.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone's treating competitive skating as a hobby and accepting invitations to international events provided that she is healthy and fit, which Flatt apparently is. If other skaters want those assignments, let them earn them, whether at Nationals or at a competition where they can get a higher Season's Best Score.

That said, I would expect the USFSA to stop giving her international assignments unless she steps up her performance level markedly at Nationals, and her Total Score at Skate America is likely to put her so far down the Season's Best list that she may not be eligible for any Grand Prix invitations from the five other host federations.

ETA:

Rachael claims she has had the same "Chronic tendonitis" for the past two years. It's the same old tendonitis excuse for all of her recent competition failures. She needs to rest her body before doing permanent damage, or pack it up and go home. It's painful to watch her, like blades are glued to the ice. In the end it's her decision to put herself out there in sub-par condition, as long as the USFS keeps throwing her competitions.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

In that case, the USFSA or her parents and coaches may need to intervene.

It's not unusual for elite athletes of her age to disregard the possible consequences of continuing train and compete in the face of chronic injuries, but those around them should be more responsible.

[Jammers]

I have never been a particular fan of Rachael Flatt, though I did rather like her skating at 2007 U.S. Nationals when she was fourteen.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone's treating competitive skating as a hobby and accepting invitations to international events provided that she is healthy and fit, which Flatt apparently is. If other skaters want those assignments, let them earn them, whether at Nationals or at a competition where they can get a higher Season's Best Score.

That said, I would expect the USFSA to stop giving her international assignments unless she steps up her performance level markedly at Nationals, and her Total Score at Skate America is likely to put her so far down the Season's Best list that she may not be eligible for any Grand Prix invitations from the five other host federations.

You think Flatt looked fit?

[judgejudy27]

It's time for Rachael to retire or for the USFSA to retire her. Rachael was out of shape and admitted that skating isn't her priority anymore. So why waste a spot on her when there are hungrier and better skaters waiting in the wings? And i don't care how high she finished at Nationals last year. Overall she was less then mediocre last season and they need to take that into consideration and not just go by Nationals. Even a skater having a bad year can have one good skate like Rachael did but they needed to look at her skating for the whole season not just Nationals. I hope she doesn't get a GP event next year after this bad performance.

I concur and I highly doubt she will get an international assigment next year and I am guessing her placement at Nationals will mean having to quailfy for Nationals next year. If all this is true I expect she will quietly retire.

[Vagabond]

You think Flatt looked fit?

Looked fit? Yes. She skated a clean five-triple Free Skate with no obvious errors other than doing a solo 2F instead of a 3F combo. Her skating has been better in the past, but that wouldn't necessarily mean she wasn't fit this past weekend.

Actually was fit? No, given what leaftygreens posted above. But I would have no way of knowing that from watching her Free Skate.

[pinky166]

Honestly, it sort of confuses me, Rachael we know has had chronic tendonitis for around two years and bulging disks in her back for even longer. Now skating is not a priority. So why does she continue if she's constantly injured and/or in pain, has to go out of her way to train, and isn't getting good results at competitions? It's weird the commentators were talking about how Rachael's 6th place finish at Nationals was "disappointing" for her, but for most of us watching the event, it seemed like Rachael really stepped it up and had a great FS that, combined with Mirai's meltdown, allowed her to finish as high as 6th. Had she skated like she did most of last season, she would likely have been out of the top 12. And even here at Skate America, I'll say I was surprised when Rachael landed 5 triples in her FS, I was not expecting that, but she still finished 9th and her PCS were really low and that's an indication of how she's viewed on the international stage now.

I could understand if Rachael was skating for Germany or Switzerland and she was the best skater they had to send to these international events and therefore she was sticking around just because she could and didn't have to worry about taking a more deserving skater's spot, but in my opinion, it would have been in much better character for USFS to give someone like Samantha Cesario, Vanessa Lam, or Kiri Baga the spot at SA, not only giving them valuable international experience but also opening up spots they were taking on the JGP that really should be given to skaters like Polina Edmunds and Mariah Bell, who are developing junior skaters and thus the perfect candidates for JGP events. Further, we all know Flatt was given Ice Challenge just so she doesn't have to skate at Sectionals out of which she likely would not qualify for Nationals (regardless of if she competed at PACs or Mids, both are deep fields), so its kind of silly. If she really loves to skate that much despite her injuries, pain, interference with college life, and results and scores indicative of how far her skating caliber has sunken compared to what it once was, at least in the eyes of the judges, then I don't have a problem with that. But she should be competing at qualifying competitions, not GP events. If she wants to skate regionals and sectionals and makes it to Nationals fair and square, good for her, it shows that she's still one of the best skaters in the Nation and can get to Nationals without any questionable loopholes. But these international assignments that conveniently give her byes from these competitions when she's in the current form she's in are really irritating. There's so many other good girls in the US who would love the chance to skate at SA, and maybe USFS should stop encouraging them to stay on the JGP if they are ready and willing to move up just to save spots for old favorites or crowd getters and give the JGP spots to junior ladies who really should be competing at those venues in the first place.

[judgejudy27]

Incredibly slow skating and spins that barely move, while doing nothing harder than a triple loop is not international level skating today. It is regional level skating at the U.S level perhaps and that is where Flatt now belongs. So what if she did 5 triples, Katarina Witt in 1987 could even do the same 5 triples she did, while doing a bunch of other things between Flatt wasnt even trying to do.

[judgejudy27]

Honestly, it sort of confuses me, Rachael we know has had chronic tendonitis for around two years and bulging disks in her back for even longer. Now skating is not a priority. So why does she continue if she's constantly injured and/or in pain, has to go out of her way to train, and isn't getting good results at competitions? It's weird the commentators were talking about how Rachael's 6th place finish at Nationals was "disappointing" for her, but for most of us watching the event, it seemed like Rachael really stepped it up and had a great FS that, combined with Mirai's meltdown, allowed her to finish as high as 6th. Had she skated like she did most of last season, she would likely have been out of the top 12. And even here at Skate America, I'll say I was surprised when Rachael landed 5 triples in her FS, I was not expecting that, but she still finished 9th and her PCS were really low and that's an indication of how she's viewed on the international stage now.

I could understand if Rachael was skating for Germany or Switzerland and she was the best skater they had to send to these international events and therefore she was sticking around just because she could and didn't have to worry about taking a more deserving skater's spot, but in my opinion, it would have been in much better character for USFS to give someone like Samantha Cesario, Vanessa Lam, or Kiri Baga the spot at SA, not only giving them valuable international experience but also opening up spots they were taking on the JGP that really should be given to skaters like Polina Edmunds and Mariah Bell, who are developing junior skaters and thus the perfect candidates for JGP events. Further, we all know Flatt was given Ice Challenge just so she doesn't have to skate at Sectionals out of which she likely would not qualify for Nationals (regardless of if she competed at PACs or Mids, both are deep fields), so its kind of silly. If she really loves to skate that much despite her injuries, pain, interference with college life, and results and scores indicative of how far her skating caliber has sunken to what it once was, at least in the eyes of the judges, then I don't have a problem with that. But she should be competing at qualifying competitions, not GP events. If she wants to skate regionals and sectionals and makes it to Nationals fair and square, good for her, it shows that she's still one of the best skaters in the Nation and can get to Nationals fair and square. But these international assignments that conveniently give her byes from these competitions when she's in the current form she's in are really irritating. There's so many other good girls in the US who would love the chance to skate at SA, and maybe USFS should stop encouraging them to stay on the JGP if they are ready and willing to move up just to save spots for old favorites or crowd getters and give the JGP spots to junior ladies who really should be competing at those venues in the first place.

ITA. Giving Flatt Skate America was a ridiculous decision and her second to last place finish was exactly as should have been expected. Her 6th place at Nationals was not a dissapointing result for her last year, but an extremely good for one for where she now is. Thankfully the madness will stop next season I am sure and we will see Flatt with no international assignments. What is the point to hold back up and comers or developing skaters from getting opportunities so some has been who admits to not even prioritizing skating anymore can finish last at a Grand Prix event with 70s or Regional level caliber skating.

[dawnie]

It would have been nice for Flatt if she went out on a good note last year at Nationals. Now I'm afraid she's going the Fumie Suguri route...

[judgejudy27]

It would have been nice for Flatt if she went out on a good note last year at Nationals. Now I'm afraid she's going the Fumie Suguri route...

That is what baffles me. The audience gave her a huge goodbye, thanks for years of great skating and contributions to U.S figure skating ovation. She reacted emotionally like she was waving goodbye, thanks for years of your support. She turned in an unlikely great performance for herself at that point in time, the ideal note to end on. Everything pointed to this being a wonderful note to retire on, and yet she continues competing, it was like WTF girl you said your goodbyes last year, they said their goodbyes back, but some skaters dont recognize their retirement gifts. Forget the Fumie Suguri route, I wouldnt be surprised if she becomes the Mira Leung of this years Nationals (Mira Leung from Nationals 2010 I mean, she already had her Mira Leung 2009 last year). Last years message from the judges was a polite "go away" and this years will be an emphatic "get the hell out!". For the record Mira was 6th at the 09 Canadian Nationals, and withdrew after being 15th in the short program in 2010. A similar placing is what I project for Flatt at this years Nationals.

Come to think of it though I think the reason Flatt was given this assignment was just to compile an easy field for Wagner to win and far outshine the other Americans at. The USFSA is clearly behind Wagner as their #1 now, even over Gold at this point, and has confidence in her, as they now should. They pay her off handsomely for that by assigning two of the weaker Americans who are no threats to her like Gao and Flatt, and the weakest international lineup possibly with the likely to plummet in 2013 World silver medalist Leonova as their seeded skater pick, a slumping Sotnikva, and basically the softest field they could put together. At Nationals Wagner will likely come in heavily backed by TPTB so while she is likely to outskate the field and deservedly reclaim her U.S title, even if she has an off event and some mistakes and erratic Jekyl and Hydes like Nagasu, Czisny, or Agnes skate great, they can protect her and make sure she wins be it by inflated PCS or whatever is neccessary, but at an international event that woudlnt be the case so they just made sure to not take the chance in case she had an off day hence assigning weaker Americans to the event with her. Gao's outstanding performances were probably not expected, but as it turns out an unexpected bonus for the USFSA with Wagner skating great and winning easily as well, pefect start to their season.

[RD]

With all the raining down on Flatt in this thread (much of which I agree with, BTW) it should be pointed out that she actually DIDN'T finish last at SA. She actually wasn't terrible (jump-wise at least), but is no longer getting the levels, etc. to be really competitive.

There are skaters even less capable than she is skating at ISU championships, so that isn't really the issue. The bigger issue is the limited number of international spots for US skaters, and we know the US has a lot of capable skaters - Flatt does have credentials from previous seasons, sure, but if she is no longer delivering, should they be still assigning her events?

Some skaters have surged back just as the skating public was preparing to stick a fork in them. It's going to take that kind of effort for her now.

[Jammers]

How is Flatt not having to compete at Sectionals this year? She should have to earn her way to Nationals just like the rest of the girls have too. I'm tired of the USFSA coddling her.

[Nomad]

How is Flatt not having to compete at Sectionals this year? She should have to earn her way to Nationals just like the rest of the girls have too. I'm tired of the USFSA coddling her.

She's competing at Ice Challenge in Graz, so there's a conflict.

[judgejudy27]

She is just too scared to compete at Sectionals since she knows she probably wouldnt qualify for Nationals, so she found a loophole to get into Nationals directly. Come Nationals this year she will probably be wishing she had taken that course (going to Sectionals, likely not making it, and retiring gracefully in peace) after all. I predict the judges at Nationals will have their scalpels ready, I predicted they would last year to an extent and was proven correct, but this year it will be a much greater extreme. Obviously the message was not strong enough last year, so they will drill it in much deeper and more forcefully this time around. Her general skating is so weak these days it is not as if it is hard to do this either, they dont even have to underscore her, they just have to score her skating exactly as it is now (which aside from some rotated heavy small triples majorly sucks these days) with absolutely none of the support a former top skater would normally expect. Scores for skating skills in the 4s would be easily justified should they wish.

[gkelly]

Do you feel that the judges were not merely objectively evaluating her performance as skated, but also using the scores to indicate how they personally feel about her as a skater? I know this might sound like a silly question, but I am trying to understand the psychology of judging.

Wouldn't asking that question here (as opposed to asking actual national and international judges) be more likely to elicit answers that will explain the psychology of fan interpretation of judging?

[haribobo]

She is just too scared to compete at Sectionals since she knows she probably wouldnt qualify for Nationals, so she found a loophole to get into Nationals directly. Come Nationals this year she will probably be wishing she had taken that course (going to Sectionals, likely not making it, and retiring gracefully in peace) after all. I predict the judges at Nationals will have their scalpels ready, I predicted they would last year to an extent and was proven correct, but this year it will be a much greater extreme. Obviously the message was not strong enough last year, so they will drill it in much deeper and more forcefully this time around.

I'm far from Rachael's biggest fan, but this is really kind of an abusive attitude. These judges don't come to Nationals to "send skaters messages", forcefully or otherwise. They are there to judge what they see...obviously there is some politics being played with PCS every year where so and so chosen ones of the year are boosted up and Susie '7th place at her one-JGP event' Skater is given mediocre PCS regardless of how she skates, and Rachael will be probably somewhere in between. Rachael didn't assign herself to her senior B that gave her a bye through Sectionals- USFS did that- so I don't see how one can say she was "too scared" to do Regionals. She wasn't too scared to show up at Nationals last year after a nightmare GP season, and she competed at Worlds even when injured and clearly couldn't skate well (when many of us wish she had withdrawn), so being too scared to compete has never been Rachael's issue. Also, USFS is just doing with her what they would do with any 6th place (non-junior-age) finisher from Nationals without 2 GP events.

As far as her projected competition at Sectionals, she would have been facing Nina Jiang, Kiri Baga, Ashley Cain, Becky Bereswill, Morgan Bell, Chelsea Christopher, and Carly Gold as her main competition. They are all good skaters and its a deeper field than we've had in Mids Senior ladies for a while now, but I'm pretty sure Rachael would manage to squeeze out at least 4th place among them. Her performance at Skate America, while not terrific, was far from embarrassing, and I've seen skaters finish 4th at Sectionals with FAR weaker skates than that. If any of the Mids Sectionals qualifiers can finish top 6 at Nationals this year, which I kind of doubt but you never know- then they can get the international assignments that Rachael got this year. We'll see...