U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

[Sylvia]

Skaters are not allowed to compete on the Senior and Junior Grand Prix in the same season (including pairs starting this season).

The current minimum age for the Senior Grand Prix is 14 as of July 1, 2012 so, technically, both Keiser (who already has competed on the JGP this season so is ineligible for the Senior GP) and Edmunds are old enough.

Even if there were a 3rd spot open, USFS is not going to give Skate America to a junior level skater such as Bell, Long or Edmunds (after all, they didn't give the 3rd SA spot to Gracie Gold last year before she was assigned to the final JGP ).

From her tweets, it sounds like Alexe Gilles has returned to Colorado Springs to train. Alexe's twin sister, Piper, was allowed to compete with Paul Poirier in Canadian qualifying competition/Nationals last season - she just wasn't allowed to compete internationally for Canada until this season.

[pinky166]

USFS probably assigned Barbie a JGP instead of reassigning someone like Vanessa again because they want Barbie to be on the JW team, and with the new rules, if she doesn't compete at a JGP, she can't compete at JW this season b/c she has to meet a minimum qualifying score. If she competed on the senior GP, then also do to new rules, she couldn't compete at JW either. So that doesn't make sense. Anyone who wants to be considered for JW can't compete in a senior ISU competition before JW happens b/c that would make them ineligible. I think the age rule regarding GP hasn't changed yet, so technically, Polina Edmunds IS old enough to skate at SA if she were to be assigned, but then she'd never get the chance to compete at JW and the USFS probably wants her on that team for 2014 and 2015 potentially. Plus, she's still competing as a junior domestically this season, so technically she'd have to test up before the event if she were to skate at SA, same goes for Mariah Bell.

The only person you mentioned who would be a logical consideration would be Yasmin Siraj, she's competing as a senior at Nationals and has already done 2 seasons on the JGP and probably isn't that likely to make the JW team anyway, so SA would be a good opportunity for her. Cesario and Baga also would have made sense, but they opted for JGP instead and thus cannot be considered (maybe they hope to go to JW this season?).

[DORISPULASKI]

The main point I was making is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to reassign SA at this time.

If the only hope is Mirai, why bother? She doesn't need 2 events to qualify for worlds, and isn't likely to score well enough to make the GPF.

[Sylvia]

If she competed on the senior GP, then also do to new rules, she couldn't compete at JW either. So that doesn't make sense. Anyone who wants to be considered for JW can't compete in a senior ISU competition before JW happens b/c that would make them ineligible.

I don't believe this particular proposal passed at the 2012 ISU Congress? Does anyone know for sure? I couldn't find it in the current ISU Rulebook online. ETA: It was supposed to apply to skaters that had competed in a senior international two times -- the original proposal can be read here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...97&postcount=1

I think the age rule regarding GP hasn't changed yet,

Correct. Rule 108 in the ISU Rulebook states:
Effective July 1st, 2014 the following applies:
1. Categories of Skaters by Age and Age Entry Requirements for
Competitions
a) The word “Senior” is used in this Rule and in the ISU Statutes to
describe certain competitions that have a minimum age entry
requirement of fifteen (15) years, determined in each instance by the
birthday of the Skater that occurs before the July 1st
that immediately precedes the relevant competition.

Plus, she's still competing as a junior domestically this season, so technically she'd have to test up before the event if she were to skate at SA, same goes for Mariah Bell.

Incorrect. Competing as a senior internationally only requires that a skater meet the ISU age requirements; there is no international test requirement. That's why Gracie Gold was allowed to compete as a senior internationally at World Team Trophy in April 2012 (she took and passed her USFS Senior FS test this past summer in order to compete nationally as a Senior this season).

[Coco]

The main point I was making is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to reassign SA at this time.

If the only hope is Mirai, why bother? She doesn't need 2 events to qualify for worlds, and isn't likely to score well enough to make the GPF.

Well, it always helps to have a cushion. Also, insane political events may prevent her from safely taking part in Cup of China due to her Japanese heritage.

Maybe she'll get invited to TEB, leaving SA for Rachael or ... as a gift the USFSA can bestow on some other federation who has a judge at worlds

It's not the 6.0 system, but if Rachael can't land a triple, she doesn't belong at a GP event. A performance that outclassed will harm how judges perceive her and make the US program a laughing stock.

[skfan]

deleted.

[icellist]

Skaters are not allowed to compete on the Senior and Junior Grand Prix in the same season (including pairs starting this season).

I was under the impression that a skater can jump from junior to senior mid-season but must stay as a senior for the rest of the season and career. For example, the Chinese Fed can still send Han Yan (internationally a junior) to senior Worlds. After skating senior at that event, Han Yan must skate as a senior for the rest of his career.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that was the whole reason why the Chinese Fed kept Han Yan junior. They're still holding out hope for Nan Song, but if he can't skate up to his potential, Han Yan takes his Worlds spot.

[icellist]

The main point I was making is that it doesn't make a lot of sense to reassign SA at this time.

If the only hope is Mirai, why bother? She doesn't need 2 events to qualify for worlds, and isn't likely to score well enough to make the GPF.

ITA with Coco. I think Mirai has just as good enough chances to qualify for the GPF as Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner, Agnes Zawadzki and Caroline Zhang IF she was given a second assignment. If given a second assignment, Rachael Flatt and Christina Gao have no chance of making GPF. Mirai also needs the event if she cannot compete at CoC.

Mirai had a higher season's best score and world standing than Agnes Zawadzki (who had a mediocre international season). The fact that she is snubbed a second assignment is totally unfair.

[Sylvia]

I was under the impression that a skater can jump from junior to senior mid-season but must stay as a senior for the rest of the season and career.

Is your impression based on the 2012 ISU Congress proposal linked in my post #224 above? If yes, I don't believe it passed in June but don't have confirmation of this fact.

[DORISPULASKI]

I Otoh think Mirai is almost as much toast as Rachael. But time will tell. Mirais summer competitions were not wonderful, and she does not seem to have the fighting spirit of a Caroline to come back from bad results. At least so far.

[olympic]

I Otoh think Mirai is almost as much toast as Rachael. But time will tell. Mirais summer competitions were not wonderful, and she does not seem to have the fighting spirit of a Caroline to come back from bad results. At least so far.

On the contrary, I think Mirai looked more 'together' and avoided any falls and even step-outs in her first competition at Glacier Falls this year scoring 156 pts. She's also not going to be spending 4 hrs. in a car traveling to and from the rink, solving one of her greatest problems last year.

[chipso1]

I Otoh think Mirai is almost as much toast as Rachael. But time will tell. Mirais summer competitions were not wonderful, and she does not seem to have the fighting spirit of a Caroline to come back from bad results. At least so far.

Her performances at Glacier Falls were her best summer performances since 2009 Golden West, IMO.

[mgobluegirl]

Her performances at Glacier Falls were her best summer performances since 2009 Golden West, IMO.

You have to be kidding. Mirai was fantastic at both 2010 US Nationals and 2010 Olympics.

[falling_dance]

You have to be kidding. Mirai was fantastic at both 2010 US Nationals and 2010 Olympics.

Chipso1 was referring only to Nagasu's performances at summer events.

[chipso1]

You have to be kidding. Mirai was fantastic at both 2010 US Nationals and 2010 Olympics.

I said they were her best summer performances since 2009 Golden West.

ETA: thanks, falling_dance!

[mgobluegirl]

I said they were her best summer performances since 2009 Golden West.

ETA: thanks, falling_dance!

Oops! In that case, I agree with you. She looked this summer, if not perfectly in form, at least happy to be skating and on a good track.

[Hedwig]

Mirai has not even competed yet internationally. Of course she has the chance to make it into the GPF - but only if she is given a second event.
I cannot understand how that happened.
She was/is inconsistent but she is undoubtedly one of the biggest talents the US has. They would be fools to throw that away.

[kwanatic]

^^ ITA, but Mirai has to show that she wants it and is willing to fight for it. They can't keep throwing chances her way only to have her flub them up. There's a lot of talent coming in behind Mirai and if she isn't willing to put in the effort then why should they keep giving her assignments?

This season she'll have to show she wants it by kicking butt at COC and nationals. She is still the best all-around skater the US has when she's "on" but she hasn't been "on" since her LP at 4CC in 2011. Everyone knows how talented she is but she's gotta prove it.

[Hedwig]

But at the moment they don't keep giving her assignments. If the rumours are true, they gave her assignment to someone else (Agnes).
All her other assignments she has earned herself (IMO).

I don't know if she will ever make it. But I do know that she is the only current US lady I really enjoy (therefore my view may be biased ) and I think she is a huge talent. Talent is not enough but as long as she is skating and shows that she may be capable of big things I don't understand why the UFSA would throw stones in her way.

[demetriosj]

ITA with Coco. I think Mirai has just as good enough chances to qualify for the GPF as Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner, Agnes Zawadzki and Caroline Zhang IF she was given a second assignment.....
.

Yes, so far this season Gracie and Agnes have shown that they are not perfect nor unbeatable with their long program performances at US Classic. Why assume Mirai is toast?