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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Do you guys really think that Rachael is going to get kicked off the SA list for her poor performance at a summer comp? Since when has USFSA been that proactive?
    I know right. They are STILL assigning JGP spots primarily off of nationals placements even though for like the 3rd season in a row, skaters who skated well at Nationals then poorly all summer were given assignments over skaters who really stepped it up over the summer and improved their form since Nationals, and then don't do well at their events. I mean, Zawadzki, Gold, Keiser, and Wang have all not qualified for Nationals one season only to come back really strong the next, and despite seeing skaters like Cain, Davis, Kulgeyko, Jiang, Dinh, Daniels, etc not skate well over the summer and not skate or place well at their JGP still getting sent out for Nationals placements year after year, makes me realize the USFS's priorities are not always what one would hope. Rachael is an Olympian, former US champion and multiple time medalist, junior world champion, and world team member, and she goes to Stanford full-time, those credentials will draw more people to come watch then would replacing her with some unknown skater, even if said skater is a lot better.

  2. #202
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    After her subpar 2011 appearance at Worlds, Rachel was fined and reprimanded for not reporting her injury. No doubt she will avoid having that happen again.

    If she is injured, she will report it, and if she does, USFSA will replace her.

    If she's just out of shape, then that's a different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddlj View Post
    After her subpar 2011 appearance at Worlds, Rachel was fined and reprimanded for not reporting her injury. No doubt she will avoid having that happen again.

    If she is injured, she will report it, and if she does, USFSA will replace her.

    If she's just out of shape, then that's a different story.
    This

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Do you guys really think that Rachael is going to get kicked off the SA list for her poor performance at a summer comp? Since when has USFSA been that proactive?
    It's funny people think this especially since they did nothing about Czisny when writing was on the wall before worlds.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    It's funny people think this especially since they did nothing about Czisny when writing was on the wall before worlds.
    But what drives the USFS's thinking? Fear of a lawsuit? Most times it just comes down to money. Alissa was obviously injured, and though Team Alissa played it correctly, considering Flatt's fine, she STILL went to Worlds when there was nothing to suggest she'd do any better. What is USFS afraid of?

    Flatt would not enter a pre-season competition and knowingly score so low. Like another poster said, why go to the trouble and embarrassment of a bad competition if all you are doing is marking your jumps? Flatt has to know she is on the 'controversial' list, and is slowly not getting any benefits of the doubt.

    I believe that this is predictive of what Flatt will put out at SA. I'll be there. I'll see it, but I'd rather see an unknown with talent and spunk and competitiveness skate than Flatt.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  6. #206
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    Good points (and who knows, really...) However, my intent was not to rehash the Czisny controversy (goodness knows that's been beaten into the ground many times over).

    I believe that this is predictive of what Flatt will put out at SA. I'll be there. I'll see it, but I'd rather see an unknown with talent and spunk and competitiveness skate than Flatt.
    Overall, this is a very different situation. Apart from the obvious differences between SA and worlds, there is a full month in between this comp and SA. And it didn't involve extensive travel. (that said, yes, my expectations are not sky-high for her for SA)

  7. #207
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    IMO, until USFS establishes some consistent criteria for when they can yank international assignments from skaters who were awarded them, i don't think they ought to be yanking anyone.

    plenty of other skaters have had lackluster outings-- was there this much outcry that they be stripped of their assigned GP/JGP spots? i recall some anger when nina jiang was assigned a JGP... some indignation on behalf of polina edmunds... but then nina has had SEVERAL poor outings... (i say that as a nina fan).

    people say why would rachael put on such a performance knowing she'd be scrutinized, but does every skater *know* exactly how a particular performance is going to unfold? i seem to recall many anecdotal reports of skaters practicing well then skating poorly, landing 3z combos during warm-up then flubbing them during the actual competition, and vice versa.

    anyway, it's not a worlds' spot with impact on how many skaters can go to worlds the following year. if rachael's not injured, i don't think she ought to be put through the spanish inquisition just yet. i prefer mirai's skating to rachael's, but mirai didn't set the world on fire at glacier falls herself. and i recall people reminding me it was too early to grumble about the version of turandot david wilson gave caroline zhang also...

  8. #208
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    This has been a long standing issue. The problem is that US has so many girls worth sending, so when a girl not ready for the competition gets to go, there're usually complaints. I remember complaints going back to when Emily got sent to SA.

    I wish US saves the host picks and decides on them after monitoring summer comps, but that's not how they do things.

  9. #209
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    ^ i understand what you're saying.

    if only more of our ladies had the option of following alexe gilles' footstep... (tongue-in-cheek... maybe...

    http://www.skatecanada-centralontari...%2021sep12.pdf

    (link copied from dorispulaski's post on GS... scroll down to second page, under senior ladies)

  10. #210
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    so...is she competing for Canada now?

    I suppose it makes sense given the path her sister took...still though

  11. #211
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    sectionals in canada looks more promising than sectionals in the U.S., definitely, although the canadian ladies on the JGP are attempting 3-3's...

    what i'm curious about is... USFSA is not making her sit out a season like they did with piper gilles? and who is coaching alexe now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    what i'm curious about is... USFSA is not making her sit out a season like they did with piper gilles? and who is coaching alexe now?
    1) Didn't Alexe already "sit out" the 2011-12 season? Looks like she didn't compete internationally at all last year.

    2) She is not yet in a position to be assigned to any international events representing Canada. If and when she is, then we'll see what, if anything, USFS will have to say about it.

    And her last international medal was 2008-09 JGPF, so by next fall that will have been 4 years.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    After JGP Istanbul...

    2012-13 U.S. Ladies -- Top International Scores

    1. Agnes ZAWADZKI (172.95), U.S. Classic
    2. Gracie GOLD (171.15), U.S. Classic
    3. Hannah MILLER (158.52), JGP Linz
    4. Samantha CESARIO (157.72), JGP Linz
    5. Leah KEISER (156.33), JGP Istanbul
    6. Courtney HICKS (153.77), JGP Lake Placid

    7. Angela WANG (150.40), JGP Lake Placid
    8. Kiri BAGA (142.22), JGP Lake Placid
    9. Vanessa LAM (140.89), JGP Courchevel
    10. Ashley CAIN (136.51), JGP Courchevel
    11. Nina JIANG (115.48), JGP Istanbul

    Upcoming assignments:
    • JGP Bled (Courtney HICKS, Barbie LONG)
    • JGP Zagreb (Hannah MILLER, Angela WANG)
    • JGP Chemnitz (most likely will be Samantha CESARIO & Leah KEISER)
    • Nebelhorn Trophy (Caroline ZHANG)
    • Finlandia Trophy (Mirai NAGASU)
    Some of my random thoughts on US ladies as we head into the Fall, a 'meatier part of the season', based on the above.

    Agnes and Gracie - setting themselves up well for the GP series against the best in the world. Agnes won against a phenom and she wasn't perfect, but held it together in the LP. This should be a shot in the arm for her. Gracie made a couple of mistakes, but she nailed the big elements in her LP, won it with a great score, and there shouldn't be any hand-wringing about those mistakes. Her team will iron those out over the course of the season.

    Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??

    Alissa - Will her late start put her behind the top ladies? If she doesn't go to NHK because she's still recovering, then Nationals could conceivably be her first competition!

    Gaggle of Juniors - Any of Keiser, Hicks, Wang, Cesario (I think Miller will be a Jr. at Nats?) could be final group material at Nats this year. They are really solid early.

    Vanessa - She looks like she is following the same trajectory as last season: WOW during the Summer, but lackluster already. I don't think she'll get another JGP assignment with the gaggle ahead of her doing so well and I'll be surprised (but pleasantly) if she turns it on later and ends up a top lady. I do think her presentation this year is a step in the right direction.

    Mirai - I was encouraged we saw her deliver solid programs in the Summer at Glacier Falls, avoiding falls and step-outs and I do realize she needs to clean up those tentative landings, but she looks much more committed and has solved her biggest problem this year; the drive to and from the rink. I think she has another thing going for her: She's less noticed this year and she could be a dark horse by Nats.

    Caroline - No judgment yet. Her Hidden Valley performances were meh, but that means nothing in July. I'll be focused on her this Fall and hope her steely resolve is a permanent characteristic. She's a threat for the podium at Nats if that's the case.

    Rachael - based on the above. It looks like she's even further back from the top at this point. I don't think she'll make the team or even be on the podium (too much talent above her now) but perhaps we can expect another spirited performance from her at some point.

    Christina - I don't know if she can juggle Harvard and top level skating. Look at Emily Hughes. Christina's start this Summer was less than exciting and there's so much talent ahead of her right now.

    IDK, I'll go out on a limb and say the season's back and forth will be Ashley, Agnes and Gracie fighting for title of #1 US lady. Scrappy Caroline hanging with them and stepping in if any of the above flounder, Alissa scrambling to hang with them (hope no catastrophes), and Mirai a little more relaxed and a true dark horse. Throw in a few Juniors with less pressure on them, too, for good measure (but maybe not Vanessa)
    Last edited by olympic; 09-23-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  14. #214
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    Miller will be competing as a senior

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post

    Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??

    Alissa - Will her late start put her behind the top ladies? If she doesn't go to NHK because she's still recovering, then Nationals could conceivably be her first competition!

    Gaggle of Juniors - Any of Keiser, Hicks, Wang, Cesario (I think Miller will be a Jr. at Nats?) could be final group material at Nats this year. They are really solid early.

    Vanessa - She looks like she is following the same trajectory as last season: WOW during the Summer, but lackluster already. I don't think she'll get another JGP assignment with the gaggle ahead of her doing so well and I'll be surprised (but pleasantly) if she turns it on later and ends up a top lady. I do think her presentation this year is a step in the right direction.

    Mirai - I was encouraged we saw her deliver solid programs in the Summer at Glacier Falls, avoiding falls and step-outs and I do realize she needs to clean up those tentative landings, but she looks much more committed and has solved her biggest problem this year; the drive to and from the rink. I think she has another thing going for her: She's less noticed this year and she could be a dark horse by Nats.

    Caroline - No judgment yet. Her Hidden Valley performances were meh, but that means nothing in July. I'll be focused on her this Fall and hope her steely resolve is a permanent characteristic. She's a threat for the podium at Nats if that's the case.

    Rachael - based on the above. It looks like she's even further back from the top at this point. I don't think she'll make the team or even be on the podium (too much talent above her now) but perhaps we can expect another spirited performance from her at some point.

    Christina - I don't know if she can juggle Harvard and top level skating. Look at Emily Hughes. Christina's start this Summer was less than exciting and there's so much talent ahead of her right now.

    IDK, I'll go out on a limb and say the season's back and forth will be Ashley, Agnes and Gracie fighting for title of #1 US lady. Scrappy Caroline hanging with them and stepping in if any of the above flounder, Alissa scrambling to hang with them (hope no catastrophes), and Mirai a little more relaxed and a true dark horse. Throw in a few Juniors with less pressure on them, too, for good measure (but maybe not Vanessa)
    ^^ Agree with a lot of the above. Pretty sure though that Miller is doing Senior. Out of all the JGP skaters doing senior I think that Cesario definitely has the most senior look - so if she can hold her technical together, she has 5th/6th potential?? Also would love to see Mirai and Caroline fighting for a medal, and fear that Alissa and Raechel are out of it for good. Vanessa is looking like she will never make the jump to the top and I think she should go tryout with Rockne; but that's a whole 'nother story. Ashley/Gracie/Agnes certainly look like the title favorites as of now.

  16. #216
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    Summer competition (known) high scores compilation for the U.S. Senior ladies (plus international scores so far): http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/s...ladies-scores/

    Junior ladies from 2012 Nationals that have tested up to Senior in the U.S. include the top 3 of Gracie Gold, Ashley Cain, and Hannah Miller, plus 8th-11th Jenelle Herman, Katarina Kulgeyko, Allison Timlen, Jessica Hu. Jordan Bauth (7th at the 2012 Youth Olympic Games) has also tested up to Senior.

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Ashley - It will be interesting to see whether she keeps up with these ladies' scores at her first competition which I think is SA (??), and answers back with a 3-3. She didn't compete at all this Summer. ETA - I just saw a tweet from Ashley that she skated an awesome SP yesterday. Anyone know about this??
    Wagner competed her SP (as a special invite, I assume) at the Southern California Inter-Club Invitational Series Final, September 22-23 at Paramount Iceland. I haven't heard any details or know of a score yet at this time.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 09-23-2012 at 04:22 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #217
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    Posting this here too, since it's relevant...

    I've updated with a 2012-2013 preview of the American Ladies. I'm working on the JGP Bosphorus review and should have it posted some time tomorrow. Enjoy!

    http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/

  18. #218

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    There is really no point in giving Mirai Skate America, since she has already has one GP to get enough TES for Worlds, and is not likely to qualify for the GPF (which is why she might get 2)

    Alissa is not healthy enough for the GP. Everyone 12th & above at US Senior Nationals is taken care of (either at GP or JGP) except Rachael.

    The young kids are pretty much all scheduled on the JGP.

    Leah Keiser won her event, earned TES qualified for Worlds, and the JGPF. Plus she's too young, AFAIR

    Samantha Cesario already has high enough TES in the SP & LP from her JGP appearance to be qualified to skate at Worlds. The same is true of Hannah Miller.

    Vanessa Lam did not skate well in her JGP event, Neither did Nina Jiang, Kiri Baga & Ashley Cain.

    Ashley Wagner, Christina Gao, Caroline Zhang, Gracie Gold, and Agnes Zawadzki all already have 2 GP's

    The two skaters who have already skated once on the JGP, did well, but didn't meet the Worlds qualifying score are Courtney Hicks (16) & Angela Wang (15). But that's a better reason to give them a second JGP than a GP slot.

    US girls scheduled for the JGP who have not yet skated:
    Mariah Bell (16 on July 1st) no event, listed as a substitute. (5th in Juniors)
    Polina Edmunds (too young for gp)
    Barbie Long (15 on July 1st) assigned a JGP event, with Chemnitz an S (4th in juniors)
    Yasmin Siraj (15 on July 1st) no event, listed as a substitute (15th in Seniors)

    Rachael has only the one event. And the girls skating on the JGP will have better results there than they will on GP, in all likelihood. And the only two girls that might make sense are Mariah Bell (5th in Juniors at US Nationals) & Yasmin Siraj (15th at US Nationals in Seniors). The phenom from the summer this year is Polina Edmunds, and she's too young for the GP.

    So I see no really pressing reason to replace Rachael at this time, unless you want to give Polina Barbie Long's JGP slot, and then give Barbie Rachael's slot.

  19. #219

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    Doris, any skater who has already competed on the JGP this season is not eligible to take Rachael's spot at SA.

    I highly doubt Rachael will be replaced, but if she is, Mirai is the most logical choice to take that spot.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    1) Didn't Alexe already "sit out" the 2011-12 season? Looks like she didn't compete internationally at all last year.

    2) She is not yet in a position to be assigned to any international events representing Canada. If and when she is, then we'll see what, if anything, USFS will have to say about it.

    And her last international medal was 2008-09 JGPF, so by next fall that will have been 4 years.

    indeed, it has been a while since alexe's skating graced the international stage. i wasn't clear on whether you could serve your sit-out retroactively. i thought once you made your country change, that's when the sit-out period begins.

    it's also possible that since i'm fond of alexe, in my mind her moment of glory as aschenbrundel (sp) at TEB was only yesterday...

    i am still curious to know about alexe's coaching situation. thanks in advance for everyone's thoughts and comments.

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