U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

[pinky166]

The edge issue with Gracie's 3f and the somewhat problematic status of her 3lo make me wonder if the SP will be where she struggles to keep pace. The edge call would negate any positive GOEs she would likely otherwise get on the 3f-3t combo, so then the Rippon 3lz and the extra points it gains might not be as much of an advantage as it would be otherwise. And if she were to switch to 3lz-3t, she couldn't do the Rippon lutz and her solo jump would either be 3f (likely with an edge deduction) or a 3lo, which she seems prone to messing up. Whereas in the FS she could do 3lz-3t and then a solo Rippon lutz, and then repeat 3t or 3s instead of 3f.

[Mrs. P]

The edge issue with Gracie's 3f and the somewhat problematic status of her 3lo make me wonder if the SP will be where she struggles to keep pace. The edge call would negate any positive GOEs she would likely otherwise get on the 3f-3t combo, so then the Rippon 3lz and the extra points it gains might not be as much of an advantage as it would be otherwise. And if she were to switch to 3lz-3t, she couldn't do the Rippon lutz and her solo jump would either be 3f (likely with an edge deduction) or a 3lo, which she seems prone to messing up. Whereas in the FS she could do 3lz-3t and then a solo Rippon lutz, and then repeat 3t or 3s instead of 3f.

The 3Loop is a problematic jump for Gracie, clearly, but she is capable of doing it. She got full credit for the jump at U.S. Nationals and at WTT. Not the best execution rate, but don't think that necessarily warrants her leaving the jump out at competitions.

As for the flip, I don't think she has a super lip---it's borderline, I'd say. She didn't get such calls last season, so I think it's a matter of just reigning it in and not rushing it.

[Triple Butz]

It isn't the first time Gold messed up the 3loop and I have only watched her a couple of times. Perhaps she should move it earlier?

How about

3lutz3toe
3loop
3flip half loop 3sal
-
3lutz
2axel2toe
3toe or 3sal (if he popped earlier attempts)
3toe or 3sal, or 2axel if she already repeated 2 types of triples

7 triples and 2 2axels is already very competitive - she doesn't need to care too much about the 10% bonus... and I am replacing the 3flip with the 3toe or 3sal, whichever she feels better about, because she gets the "e" on the flip.

I'm wondering if she should go for a 2a/3toe (did it with ease last season), ditch the second 3flip and do a double "rippon" lutz as her last jumping pass. If she misses one of the 3t's she could always put in a solo 3t or 3sal instead of the 2lutz.

so it would be:
3lz/3t
3r (I agree, get it done early)
3f/.5r/3s
2a/3t
2a
3z
2z 'rippon' variation

[Coco]

If her combo in the SP is a 3fwhatever, is it still mandatory -GOE if she gets an edge call? Or can the + GOE on the jump combination cancel it out?

[Marco]

Is Gold's lip like Kim's - only an issue when the jump is to be done in combination?

[love_skate2011]

Gracie gets edge calls on Flip and Loop sometimes but
I'm more focused on her loop as she tends to pop or fall on it.

Gracie is a good Free Skater so normally she bounces back, see even from her recent US Classic

this season US junior ladies are doing well
I see Keiser medaling in JGP Turkey, Miyahara is beatable and is not a gold lock

[smarts1]

^ Gracie hasn't fallen on a loop yet in competition.

[Sylvia]

I thought Gracie Gold's spins looked improved at the Salt Lake City Senior B.

Here's an article about her from SLC: http://www.teamusa.org/News/2012/Sep...acie-Gold.aspx

[gkelly]

If her combo in the SP is a 3fwhatever, is it still mandatory -GOE if she gets an edge call? Or can the + GOE on the jump combination cancel it out?

According to the current rules,

The deduction for a "severe wrong edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE must be in the minuses.

The deduction for an "unclear edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE is not restricted.

No more ! symbol for unclear edges.

So if the tech panel calls marks the "e" on a flip or lutz, the judges don't know whether the tech panel considered the takeoff edge severely wrong or just unclear. They each need to use their own judgment.

I.e., if a judge saw or suspected the wrong edge in real time before the tech panel review and already took the minus, she would probably keep it or lower it.

If the judge thought the jump was great in real time and didn't notice any edge problem, she might start with a positive GOE and then subtract 1 after seeing the e call.

If she specifically noticed the edge was clearly correct in real time, or had a good view of the tracing which showed that to be the case, she could decide that even if it was unclear from the tech panel's point of view it was perfectly clear that it was correct from her point of view and she's not going to penalize it at all.

[Mrs. P]

Here's how the panel scored Gracie's flips:

Short program
2F(e)+2T BV 3.10 -0.90 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 2.20

Long program
3F (e)+1Lo+3S BV10.00 0.00 0 0 0 0 -1 10.00

3F<(e) BV 4.07x -2.10 -3 -3 -3 3- 3 1.97


It's unclear to me how much impact the edge call had on the final score. With the combo in the SP, she would have received an automatic -3 for not doing the required combo.

As you can see in the FS with the first combo, only one judge opted to give any negative GOE. A solid combo otherwise (good 3S, good flow, etc...) may have lead to her getting zero instead of +GOE.

And in the solo jump, she would have received a -3 anyway for the fall. Judges are also advised to give -1 or -2 in GOE for a UR.

Also gkelly, according to ISU Communication 1724, the deduction for a unclear edge is -1 or -2 not -2 or -3 as you noted. We don't really know if the tech caller called it an unclear edge or a severe edge.

Given she has not received such calls in the past, I am inclined to say it's not a severe edge. She has been flat before, so I think it's a matter, again, of reining it in. That is, just being mindful during program runthroughs.

[Coco]

According to the current rules,

The deduction for a "severe wrong edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE must be in the minuses.

The deduction for an "unclear edge take-off F/Lz (sign 'e')" is -2 to -3 and the final GOE is not restricted.

No more ! symbol for unclear edges.

So if the tech panel calls marks the "e" on a flip or lutz, the judges don't know whether the tech panel considered the takeoff edge severely wrong or just unclear. They each need to use their own judgment.

I.e., if a judge saw or suspected the wrong edge in real time before the tech panel review and already took the minus, she would probably keep it or lower it.

If the judge thought the jump was great in real time and didn't notice any edge problem, she might start with a positive GOE and then subtract 1 after seeing the e call.

Thank you, I remember this now. I blocked it from memory because I thought it such a horrible idea, especially with the .7 difference in base value between 3f and 3z.

[gkelly]

Also gkelly, according to ISU Communication 1724, the deduction for a unclear edge is -1 or -2 not -2 or -3 as you noted.

Yes, sorry, I knew that but I didn't post it correctly.

We don't really know if the tech caller called it an unclear edge or a severe edge.

Exactly. The way the "e" call works now, basically the tech panel is telling the judges "Think carefully about what you saw on that takeoff edge and how you want to score it. We checked the replay, and it did not look clearly correct to us."

[used2skate]

Did anyone see Rachel this weekend? I heard she scored around 103 which is pretty good for an early season event.

[falling_dance]

Did anyone see Rachel this weekend? I heard she scored around 103 which is pretty good for an early season event.

Unfortunately, that's 103.93 over both phases of competition.

short program (40.26; one deduction)

and

free skate (63.67; one deduction)

[MikiAndoFan#1]

Unfortunately, that's 103.93 over both phases of competition.

short program (40.26; one deduction)

and

free skate (63.67; one deduction)

[sk8indel]

Here's the fs protocol
http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm12/I...l/SEGM015.html

Rachel was beaten by a kid without a 2A...

[dawnie]

Here's the fs protocol
http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm12/I...l/SEGM015.html

Rachel was beaten by a kid without a 2A...

Oh dear. To think she once placed 5th at Worlds...

[Jarrett]

Uh no place to go but up this season for Rach. And why does she have an assignment at SA again?

[mag]

Surely that assignment will be reviewed in light of this result?

[toddlj]

Uh no place to go but up this season for Rach. And why does she have an assignment at SA again?

Oh my. All doubles except one 3F with negative GOE? And only one 2A which she fell on? Oh my. Skate America is less than a month away.

I don't suppose Mirai is ready?