U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

[martyross]

I was going to call it "Wagner's Rink Cycle," but I changed my mind. Maybe next time.

that would have been awesome. please use it next time. and Ashley does deserve more attention here !

[pinky166]

ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

Yes exactly. Did Vanessa deserve an initial JGP assignment - absolutely! She skated very well this summer and had a decent season last year. But does she deserve a second? If there were not that many strong girls to pick from so USFS could afford to send more girls to 2 events just for the experience regardless of if they were likely to make the final, then I would say it would make sense, but when we've still got 3 really talented girls deserving of an assignment who have yet to get one event, I would say no, don't send Vanessa out again, or at least not until all the girls that deserve an assignment have gotten one and the results are in and her placement is better than most of the rest. Vanessa has experience, she was given the benefit of the doubt when she was named to the JW team after placing behind Wang at Nationals and struggling at the JGPF, and although she's capable of winning JGPs as she's done it before, she needs to skate basically clean to do so and you can usually count on her to make at least a couple errors in her FS. So, basically, I won't get mad if Vanessa gets a 2nd assignment, but I will be very mad if she gets a 2nd before Barbie and Polina (and maybe even Mariah too) get a 1st. And as for Ashley, her chances of qualifying for the JGPF are slim to none with a 5th place finish and her technical capabilities, so I really don't see the point in sending her out again. She too earned her 1st spot, but to be honest, I feel she had the skate of her life in the FS at Nationals and that her JGP outings here and last season are more typical of what we can usually expect from her...

[jlai]

ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

IMHO it's fine to send untested skaters (e.g. Gold and Agnes Z at juniors), but without upcomers competing against each other in the summer, it's hard to tell how reliable a club competition score is. (As it turns out, it's not that reliable for Lam as her jumps could be dinged at JGPs. ). And if USFS uses club competition score to send a girl further down the US nationals list and if the girl tanks, then USFS gets criticized, which is exactly why USFS always plays safe and uses US nationals ranking (to avoid the political ramifications if things go wrong).

The only way to pick out girls without controversy is to set aside JGP spots and name one summer competition to decide where spots go. This year so many men competed at Glacier Falls. If a large number of ladies do that also next year, that can turn out to be the "JGP qualificaiton" event for those without assignments.

[skfan]

IMHO it's fine to send untested skaters (e.g. Gold and Agnes Z at juniors), but without upcomers competing against each other in the summer, it's hard to tell how reliable a club competition score is. (As it turns out, it's not that reliable for Lam as her jumps could be dinged at JGPs. ). And if USFS uses club competition score to send a girl further down the US nationals list and if the girl tanks, then USFS gets criticized, which is exactly why USFS always plays safe and uses US nationals ranking (to avoid the political ramifications if things go wrong).

The only way to pick out girls without controversy is to set aside JGP spots and name one summer competition to decide where spots go. This year so many men competed at Glacier Falls. If a large number of ladies do that also next year, that can turn out to be the "JGP qualificaiton" event for those without assignments.

i would prefer that USFS designate a certain # of spots that depend on nationals and a certain # that don't, and what you have to achieve at 1st JGP to get a 2nd. that way it's clear to all what they will have to do to get one. specify which summer competition will determine nationals-independent spots, for those not likely to qualify by nationals results because those skaters were injured the previous season or just skated poorly at nationals, etc, and have those skaters compete against each other scored by the same judging panel. and USFS should also clarify that senior nationals #12 will be given priority over junior nationals #4, etc. if i were on team karen chen, team polina edmunds, or team barbie long, i would be mighty tempted to have my skater become a US nationals senior by the september 1st deadline, looking at USFS's pattern of JGP distribution this season (sending nina jiang instead of barbie long).

[peibeck]

As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.

Mirai was doing the 2A/3T combo in practices and during the warm-up at Nationals. Mirai changed the layout of her FS program as she was skating it that night from what she had been practicing. I don't think that is Frank's fault.

[peibeck]

Yes exactly. Did Vanessa deserve an initial JGP assignment - absolutely! She skated very well this summer and had a decent season last year. But does she deserve a second?

She was third in the free skate and fourth overall in Courcheval, and last season she was fourth in her first JGP event also but still managed to make the JGPF.

Good heavens, it's always the end of the world if a US lady doesn't medal.

[oleada]

Actually, last season Lam was 3rd in her first JGP event (Australia).

[skfan]

She was third in the free skate and fourth overall in Courcheval, and last season she was fourth in her first JGP event also but still managed to make the JGPF.

Good heavens, it's always the end of the world if a US lady doesn't medal.

it's not the end of the world. it's that others are also deserving of 1 chance before vlam gets 2.

[peibeck]

Actually, last season Lam was 3rd in her first JGP event (Australia).

You're correct, sorry for my error. Still, I think she is deserving of another chance if it arises.

[skfan]

You're correct, sorry for my error. Still, I think she is deserving of another chance if it arises.

you think she deserves another JGP before polina edmunds or barbie long even gets one?

[chipso1]

Good heavens, it's always the end of the world if a US lady doesn't medal.

It's not the end of the world, but it will be very hard for her to make the Final now, especially with only 6 ladies qualifying.

It wouldn't be such an issue if the U.S. didn't have such great depth in junior eligible ladies, but we do.

[jlai]

Lam hasn't medalled at her last 3 junior events (jgpf, junior world and this comp). I am not even a fan of Barbie Long, but I hope USFS gives her a chance. (I hope USFS gives every promising lady a chance.)

[Sylvia]

I don't believe peibeck has been following the "2012-13 U.S. JGP Assignment Predictions/Speculation/Discussion" thread as closely as some of us so we should ease up a little.

Total scores of 130+ in U.S. summer competitions with published results; known international assignments and, now, first international results included:

SENIOR
173.29 Gracie Gold (Skate Detroit) - Salt Lake Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
172.30 Vanessa Lam (Hidden Valley Open); 140.89, 4th at JGP France
168.48 Hannah Miller (Skate Detroit) - JGP Austria
168.42 Leah Keiser (All Year FSC comp.) - JGP Turkey
167.36 Angela Wang (Colorado Championships, Jr.) - JGP Lake Placid
158.23 Samantha Cesario (Liberty) - JGP Austria
156.60 Mirai Nagasu (Glacier Falls) - 1 GP
153.48 Agnes Zawadzki (Colorado Championships) - Salt Lake Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
149.87 Caroline Zhang (Hidden Valley Open) - Nebelhorn Sr B, 2 Grand Prix
146.25 Yasmin Siraj (Cranberry Open) - JGP alternate
145.48 Christina Gao (Cranberry Open) - 2 Grand Prix
145.10 Ashley Cain (Cannon Texas Open); 136.51, 5th at JGP France
144.23 Courtney Hicks (L.A. Open) - JGP Lake Placid
142.86 Joelle Forte (Liberty) - not in ISP
139.24 Kiri Baga (Skate Milwaukee) - JGP Lake Placid
138.87 Haley Dunne (Liberty) - not in ISP
132.83 Nina Jiang (Cannon Texas Open) - JGP Turkey
131.76 Carly Gold (Skate Milwaukee) - not in ISP
130.77 Becky Bereswill (Skate Detroit) - not in ISP

JUNIOR
170.06 Polina Edmunds (Broadmoor Open combined final round scores) - JGP alternate
157.93 Barbie Long (Broadmoor Open SP Only & FS qualifying scores added together) - JGP alternate
153.03 Karen Chen (Glacier Falls) - not in ISP (too young)
142.56 Maria Yang (Liberty) - not in ISP
141.80 Mariah Bell (Glacier Falls) - JGP alternate
134.05 Selena Zhao (Glacier Falls) - not in ISP

[skfan]

never mind.

[peibeck]

I don't believe peibeck has been following the "2012-13 U.S. JGP Assignment Predictions/Speculation/Discussion" thread as closely as some of us so we should ease up a little.

No, in fact, I have haven't followed the discussion at all since I am so busy with work during the summer.

I didn't know Polina or Barbie didn't even have an assignment yet, so please spare the arrows.

I guess I will have to create a Vanessa Lam voodoo doll as penance for being a bad skating fan now.

[skfan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SP...ailpage#t=138s

this looked very scary. can someone confirm that ashley cain is okay?

she was able to continue and (to my eyes) skated even better than before that fall, but i don't know if she changed her jump layout or something.

[jlai]

I saw Ashley Cain skate in June, and she had a freak accident there during warmup and looked hurt afterwards. She fell on her triples during her skate. I hope this is not a recurring thing for her

I guess I will have to create a Vanessa Lam voodoo doll as penance for being a bad skating fan now.

[skfan]

^yes, i remember you mentioning such a fall. i hope cain's skating well towards the end of the courchevel program means all is well.

[pinky166]

You're correct, sorry for my error. Still, I think she is deserving of another chance if it arises.

If there's room to send her after Barbie and Polina get sent to an event and no one else places better than her, then I don't have a problem with it, but 4th place with a 140 score means her chances of qualifying for the JGPF very slim, so in that case, I think the spread the wealth approach makes more sense. Even if Barbie and Polina get sent to the last event, medal, and don't get a chance to receive a second event and a shot to qualify for the final, at least they'd get the experience, WR points, and a chance to go to JW this season.

[AliasJohnDoe]

The thread title brought back memories of the "Cover Girls" All That Glitters Isn't Gold (from clubbing in the 80's):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52L26P0g0Co