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  1. #1
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    U.S. Ladies [#5]: All That Glitters Is Not Gold

    Proceed....

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    weird headline, is it still mostly about Gracie Gold ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    weird headline, is it still mostly about Gracie Gold ?
    wasn't the last one too?

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    Blame Vagabond who started both threads!

    Re-posting the link to the Champs Camp article on Ashley Wagner, Christina Gao, and Agnes Zawadzki: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Senior B assignments so far:
    Salt Lake City: Gracie Gold and Agnes Zawadzki
    Nebelhorn Trophy: Caroline Zhang
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    thats nice more competitions for Gracie

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    Nice to see the top US Ladies going for the 3-3 combo's now. They see the writing on the wall that they need them if they hope to compete against the top Ladies. That's why it was frustrating the last couple years watching some of the top US Ladies like Mirai and Rachael and Ashley not pushing themselves technically and being happy with it. Alissa at least was planning too do a 3-3 last season even though it didn't pan out but at least she was ambitious. Now there is no choice. How things can change in just a couple years.
    Last edited by Jammers; 08-24-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Nice to see the top US Ladies going for the 3-3 combo's now. They see the writing on the wall that they need them if they hope to compete against the top Ladies. That's why it was frustrating the last couple years watching some of the top US Ladies like Mirai and Rachael and Ashley not pushing themselves technically and being happy with it. Alissa at least was planning too do a 3-3 last season even though it didn't pan out but at least she was ambitious. Now there is no choice. How things can change in just a couple years.
    I can agree with you re Mirai and Rachael, but Ashley was going for 3-3's back in 2010 under Priscilla Hill, so I don't think it's fair to lump her in there

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I can agree with you re Mirai and Rachael, but Ashley was going for 3-3's back in 2010 under Priscilla Hill, so I don't think it's fair to lump her in there
    Rachael consistently completed 3-3s in competition through the 2010 season.

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    The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.
    IMO, some of the blame lies with TomZ...Flatt's coach..... as he changed up which 3-3's she was doing season to season and even within a season. Going back and looking at vids from different competitions for her SPs and LPs, he had her do 3F-3T, she worked on 3Lz-3T, 2A-3T, and if IIRC, he also had her doing 2A-3Lp and 3Lz-3Lp. So, no wonder the 3-3's became inconsistent. Only time I remember Flatt attempting 3T-3T was her junior season LP. No wonder she had chronic tendonitis for several seasons.

    Wagner talked about 3-3's but did not consistently try them in competitive programs. I think Mirai ran into similar issues as Flatt...IIRC, she had foot problems two yrs ago during the summer, (and IIRC, she showed up at Champs Camp with a boot/walking cast on her foot and did not do programs...so, as an aside, wonder why Evan was not required to do the same thing...whatever). I think the foot problems for Mirai hampered her attempts for 3-3's as well.
    Last edited by B.Cooper; 08-24-2012 at 04:37 PM.

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    ^ Yes, I was so angry that in 2010-2011, Rachael wasn't doing anything but skating, and her triple-triples went MIA the whole season and all they talked about was a triple lutz-triple loop combo which she never even attempted the whole season.

    As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Blame Vagabond who started both threads!


    I was going to call it "Wagner's Rink Cycle," but I changed my mind. Maybe next time.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 08-24-2012 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ Yes, I was so angry that in 2010-2011, Rachael wasn't doing anything but skating, and her triple-triples went MIA the whole season and all they talked about was a triple lutz-triple loop combo which she never even attempted the whole season.

    As for Mirai, Frank kept on watering down her programs. I remember looking at the protocols at Nationals this year and they decided to only go for a double axel-double toe in the LP, unlike her previous seasons. And last season, Mirai was injury free. Maybe we'll see some upgraded content this season.
    Again, I think alot of the responsibility is with Flatt's coach. Flatt did talk about the tendonitis issues from NHK trophy on in a couple of interviews thru out the remainder of her season. I think if Zakrajsek was not so focused on the COP and always upping the technical points in programs, Flatt would have had more success with placing 3-3s in her programs that season. I don't think it wasn't for lack of training the combinations...it is just that she was injured at every competition that season.

    At some point, I think there is a point where the athlete is dealing with daily aches and pains from training, and their bodies just won't allow them to go beyond what they can currently do without inflicting more pain. So, the coaches look for other options...and perhaps that is "watering down" a program, so that the skater can successfully perform it. (Thinking Carolina Kostner a few seasons back when she wasn't doing flips or lutzes). On the other hand, I think Mirai and Rachael both dealt with reoccuring injury issues and just could not "up" the technical content any further. There is also a huge mental piece of the puzzle that comes into play....and if the skater doesn't have enough repetitions under their feet to do a more difficult element, it probably isn't going to happen in competition. And, add nagging injury issues to that. I think Ashley has had other issues ....correcting jumping technique (two footing, etc) that has been part of the process for her in terms of doing the 3-3s. Mr Nicks has had to break down her jump technique, to allow her to clean up the first triple, in order to be able to take off/vault properly for the second jump. So, will be interesting to see how the season progresses.

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    Perhaps next time the thread title should be "desparately seeking Kween" or something like that

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    Please, no "Kween" in the next Ladies thread title!

    Copying over these 2 posts from the end of the last thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    The senior ladies event at U.S. Nationals this year will be amazing! Four former champions + (potentially) the top 3 juniors from 2012 + some amazing story lines + lots of triple/triple threats + a pre-Olympic year + only 2 spots at Worlds = . This should be one of the better ladies events in recent years...
    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I see a potential large vacuum up top, considering the number of top ladies who are now starting college and that can affect their training.
    This could be 2008 US nationals all over in terms of ladies-- with quite a few newbies getting top five.

    We usually have a strong US nationals after a weak one? (e.g. 2003, 2004 US nationals in men). If so, this year should be exciting
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    The thing that frustrated me most about Rachael was that her level of technical ability was not the same season to season. Her triple-triples went MIA 2010-2011 and partially in 2008-2009.
    What frustrated me was that in the 10/11 season her Tom Z came out and told the media that the other girls had lessened their difficulty and Rachael had kept hers up. As others have noted, she failed to land a 3/3 or even attempt one for the whole season.

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    :/ Did Tom Z ever get some official scrutiny thrown his way re: the worlds debacle? I felt it was terribly unfair for Rachael to be the only one fined, or at least publicly fined, when her coach had supervised a very similar situation two months before (Josh Farris at nationals).

    And, speaking of Rachael, is there any news from champs camp about her? She is there, yes?

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    Lam and Cain finished 4th and 5th at the JGP in France. Vanessa scored 140.89 and Ashley 136.51. If USFS was intelligent neither would get a 2nd event and Long and Edmunds would be sent out to the next available event, but I wouldn't be surprised if they both get 2nd assignments and one or both of Barbie and Polina lucks out .

    Anyways, this was the point I was making about Lam. In domestic competitions, she scores very well. In international competitions, however, she rarely breaks 6s for PCS, and that combined with her jumps that garner no +GOE, no 3-3, and her tendency to make a couple mistakes in her programs means she's unlikely to really make it as a senior internationally. I mean, this wasn't that deep of a field, she was one of the oldest skaters in the field, and she failed to medal, placing behind two complete unknown youngsters. Maybe with a jump overhaul she could really go places, but idk...

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    from thread #4:

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    At least Ashley is mostly mostly consistent (w/ only the occasional 2-foot) after moving to Nicks. Agnes has a taller order to fill
    Agreed about Zawadzki (not giving up on her yet, though)...however, I'm not completely convinced yet that Wagner has exercised ALL of her SP demons...

    Still, I'm curious to see how Wagner handles this season. Hopefully last season wasn't her peak...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Lam and Cain finished 4th and 5th at the JGP in France. Vanessa scored 140.89 and Ashley 136.51. If USFS was intelligent neither would get a 2nd event and Long and Edmunds would be sent out to the next available event, but I wouldn't be surprised if they both get 2nd assignments and one or both of Barbie and Polina lucks out .

    Anyways, this was the point I was making about Lam. In domestic competitions, she scores very well. In international competitions, however, she rarely breaks 6s for PCS, and that combined with her jumps that garner no +GOE, no 3-3, and her tendency to make a couple mistakes in her programs means she's unlikely to really make it as a senior internationally. I mean, this wasn't that deep of a field, she was one of the oldest skaters in the field, and she failed to medal, placing behind two complete unknown youngsters. Maybe with a jump overhaul she could really go places, but idk...
    ITA w/ your post! Vanessa was also awesome last summer only to tank during the actual competitive season. Considering all the possible talent, the USFSA should adopt a policy of sending any no. of the new gals out to these big events if any of the older gals don't cut it. It really is the only way to move the whole of US skating forward

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