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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    There is a reason why racing greyhounds, which is a breed that has a reputation for attacking small furry things because they are bred to chase small furry things, must wear a muzzle when outside in Australia. I love greyhounds, grew up with them and think they are the most friendly dogs - I never met a vicious one when it came to reacting with people. In fact they are one of the few dogs that I would not hesitating patting if I didn't know the dog. But I totally respect the inherent risks involved with that dog breed and would do all I can to reduce the risks if I owned one.
    I never would have guessed that greyhounds would be that way (needing to be muzzled). A greyhound rescue group has a booth once a month at the local farmer's market and they usually have two or three of their dogs present. I realize that the dogs placed with adoptive families likely have been "tested" for their aggressiveness towards other animals and children, but these have been some of the sweetest, most laid-back dogs I have ever been around. Having been bitten by dogs in the past (once as a small child, once while delivering the mail on a summer college job), I'm not naturally a "dog person" but I have loved visiting with the greyhounds whenever they have been at the market. Mostly they haven't been on leashes, but of course, this is quite different from having them run free at a dog park.
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  2. #22
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    Greyhounds are extremely gentle. The risk is to small animals that run-The Greyhound will react by running it down, because thats what they've been bred to do.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    It's not just pitt mixes. You just never know whether a dog is dog aggressive by its breed or temperament around people.
    Or just dogs. My cat could eat a chihuahua.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Or just dogs. My cat could eat a chihuahua.
    Well sure, but you do need to be smart about it. I was at a Pride parade several years ago, and we were walking down the sidewalk and it was jammed person to person. However we all noticed as we were heading down the street people were basically jumping like three feet to the side when they hit a certain spot. Guess what, I did too. Some idiot decided to bring his PYTHON to the parade and carried it around his shoulders. Well guess what? A parent with a toddler on his shoulders walked past it, didn't see it, and the python attacked the toddler. Can you even imagine?!?!

    It's about risks and being smart. Taking a python to a crowded parade was not smart, and now, taking your attack dog out in public would not be considered smart. Keep it at home.

    And the one major thing I learned is that if a boa/python is attacking, throwing alcohol in its eyes will unhinge it usually. Fortunately it was gay pride and there was plenty there. But if that were my child, I would so sue and would probably win big. Now you have to worry if your dog attacks a kid, you will be sued for $$$$$$$ and you would deserve it.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    The thing is- I think it is rare. I have never heard of a dog being attacked at a dog park, and friends frequent them, and talk/gossip about them all the time.


    Our dog doesn't socialize well with certain types of dogs, so for the unknown- we wouldn't ever take her to a dog park. I wouldn't want to risk her becoming aggressive because she feels dominant or on the other end because she feels scared.
    Unfortunately, this is not rare at all. At one of our local parks, there have been two dogs killed in the last 18 months by two different dogs (who were never aggressive). Not all dogs are good dog park material. And, you put that together with inexperienced and ill trained dog Owners, you have a loosing situation.

    Strong prey instinct does mean that the dog has a strong drive to attack whatever he/she feels is "prey" - a dog, pet, child, etc.

    We have an 82 lb mix (supposed to be shepherd and golden - but I think she is more Rottie). After our German Shepherd died, our mix became aggressive. I had taken my dogs to the dog park every day, sometimes twice. But when we lost the big dog (I think) our dog became frightened, and/or figured she had to be more protective of me.

    My dog is simply not safe off leash where other dogs are. Period. So, I don't take her anywhere off leash. She is fabulous around people....lets the toddler take food from her mouth. I don't understand it, but I have learned to manage it.

    Pitts, as nice as they can be, have those hugely strong jaws, and a they were bred to fight. If one has that type of dog, then it is incumbent upon the owner to be responsible for managing the dog.

    So, good for you for not going to the park. And good for you for seeking advice. Leerburg Kennel has some fabulous resource information, and articles about aggression in dogs.

    Good luck.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  6. #26
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    If a dog is aggressive with other dogs, that in no way predicts that it will be aggressive toward humans.

    I don't think that a dog that is aggressive at times with other dogs should be confused with a dog that is dangerous to humans.

    Dogs do get into fights. Some dogs who are generally good natured with other dogs sometimes get into fights with those other dogs. Its really not reasonable to suggest that a dog that has done that is a dangerous attack dog that might attack humans.
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    Cupid, I've posted about this before, but my dog was attacked. This happened a few years ago. I have a Cavalier Spaniel. My neighbors took in a 7 year old Yellow Lab. They got the dog on a Saturday, the next day the family took the dog out for a walk - Mom, Dad, 11 year old girl, 8 year old girl, 4 year old girl. the family was on the side walk, the (maybe 60 lb.) 8 year old had the dog's leash. the dog probably weighed about 80 - 90 lbs. I was walking past them, in the street. My dog pulled toward the other dog, though I keep him on a very short leash. The lab saw my dog and like a rocket crouched down and swooped under my dog and grabbed him by the throat. It was shaking him, trying to kill him. I was screaming but didn't know what to do without doing more harm to my dog. Fortunately the father was able to get his hands into the lab's mouth and pry it open. My dog fell away. He could barely move. We had to take him to an emergency vet. They put him under, cleaned out his shoulder. Took X-rays to make sure his neck and spine were okay. And they put in 6 drains for the puncture wounds. We had to file a police report, the vet insisted. Our neighbors called the people they got the dog from and asked them about it being aggressive, they were told that it had attacked other dogs. Neighbors brought the dog back to them the next day, they were afraid of it with their children. They were horrified, but they didn't know the dog would attack. The only thing I think they did which was foolish was to let an 8 year old child take the leash of a big dog they didn't know. I mean the child could have been hurt, as well. My dog healed, though he still has some pain in that shoulder. The problem is that he is now terrified of other dogs. And I still have nightmares!

    It cost us about $3,000.00 in vet bills. Our neighbors covered it with their homeowners insurance.

    You never know what a dog will do. But, once a dog shows dog on dog aggression, it is best to keep he dog away from other dogs, unless it's muzzled. You are smart to stay away from dog parks. Just understand that you may be around dogs, in an excitable situation, just walking. You should also know that if a police report was filed, it stays with the dog. If the dog attacks a person, they can force you to put the dog down after only one attack. If the dog attacks a dog, it gets 3 strikes, then it goes down. So, be diligent, you don't want your baby to be taken from you. I don't know if any of this helps, I hope it does.

    And BR is totally right. Dogs that are dog aggressive are no more likely to be aggressive toward humans than any other dog.

  8. #28

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    Any dog can become aggressive, we had a black lab/dachsund mix that was so aggressive our vet told us to put her down. We refused and found a new vet but we also never took our dog to any dog parks and we did not let her get near any other dogs or people when we walked her. A town near us settled a case yesterday where a pit bull escaped from its back yard and attacked another dog being walked by a woman and her daughter. The Pitt bull shook the smaller dog to death in front of the little girl. The town agreed to allow the man to keep his dog as long as he keeps it muzzled and he has to compensate the woman for the loss of her dog but the man was warned that if the dog escaped without the muzzle, it would be destroyed.

  9. #29

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    When did the trainer tell you she had a heightened prey instinct? It sounds like it was before the incident? That should have put you on high alert *before* she attacked another dog, especially when you add in the breed characteristics of pit bulls. You said you didn't think that meant she would attack other dogs, so what did you think it meant? If you weren't sure what that implied you should have asked the trainer for clarification, not to mention advice about whether off leash dog parks are appropriate. If a trainer tells me an animal of mine has a high prey instinct, particularly in a breed that is stereotypically aggressive, I'd make sure I understand exactly what that means and what my responsibilities are.

    This is not whiny pet owners overreacting to an innocent adorable puppy. Pits have a reputation for a reason and if you take one on it is your responsibility to be extra vigilant for the safety of other dogs and dog owners around you.

  10. #30
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    One of the biggest mistakes some pet owners make is to treat their pets like humans. A dog is a dog. It doesn't think like we do. We as pet owners, and I've always had a dog and usually large breeds, have much healthier and happier dogs share our lives if we treat them like a dog. We expect them to act like a dog. Any dog can and will bite under certain circumstances. I had a doberman when my son was born. I never, ever left him alone with the dog even though the dog had never shown any aggressive tendencies. However, it only takes once. I understood the breed and treated him with the respect he deserved. Same with my Akita. I now have two Standard Poodles. I would not trust my male around children. My female will chase anything that runs or flys. They are never, ever off leash out of my yard. They are beautiful, extremely smart and have a true sense of humor, but they are still dogs. They do dog stuff.

    One of the funniest things I ever heard was a woman who brought her beagle to one of our obedience classes and asked the trainer how to keep the beagle from treeing the squirrels in the yard or chasing rabbits. They didn't want the little squirrel or rabbit hurt. We stared at her and the trainer finally asked why on earth did you get a beagle then. That's what they are bred to do. Her answer: she wanted a dog like Snoopy in Charlie Brown. His reply: then buy a paper and read the comic section.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post

    And BR is totally right. Dogs that are dog aggressive are no more likely to be aggressive toward humans than any other dog.
    Right, but good luck if that dog actually ends up attacking a human. I wouldn't take that risk, to be honest. Keep it away from others especially in public.
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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    I never would have guessed that greyhounds would be that way (needing to be muzzled). A greyhound rescue group has a booth once a month at the local farmer's market and they usually have two or three of their dogs present. I realize that the dogs placed with adoptive families likely have been "tested" for their aggressiveness towards other animals and children, but these have been some of the sweetest, most laid-back dogs I have ever been around. Having been bitten by dogs in the past (once as a small child, once while delivering the mail on a summer college job), I'm not naturally a "dog person" but I have loved visiting with the greyhounds whenever they have been at the market. Mostly they haven't been on leashes, but of course, this is quite different from having them run free at a dog park.
    I am so glad you like them. As I said it is racing greyhounds. Once they have finished their racing careers that is another story. There is a society here that puts greyhounds up for adoption. They do indeed test them for aggressiveness and how they respond around small fluffy things. If cleared they wear a green collar to show they are okay and don't need to wear a muzzle.

    Years ago we lost a cat because my dad let one of the greyhounds out and it chased it and killed it. So I know first hand what they can do.

    Unfortunately many greyhounds are put down after their racing careers because it is hard to find them homes. But if I wanted a dog I probably woudn't hesitate to adopt a greyhound. They really don't eat that much and they are very lazy (once they finish racing). People underestimate them as pets. I have always had to defend them because the first people think is they are vicious because usually they are seen wearing a muzzle.
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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    One of the funniest things I ever heard was a woman who brought her beagle to one of our obedience classes and asked the trainer how to keep the beagle from treeing the squirrels in the yard or chasing rabbits. They didn't want the little squirrel or rabbit hurt. We stared at her and the trainer finally asked why on earth did you get a beagle then. That's what they are bred to do. Her answer: she wanted a dog like Snoopy in Charlie Brown. His reply: then buy a paper and read the comic section.
    Some people should never own a pet. Did she think the dog was going to take to the skies and fly in a little plane?
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    A very good dog trainer once said “ its not dogs that I mostly train but rather their owners who need the training most.”

    I own an aggressive breed of dog as well and for that reason, I never put him in a situation where I set him up to fail. A lot of people try and make their dogs what they want them to be rather than what they actually are. That goes both ways with things like aggression towards humans and animals. There are some pitt bulls who would be terrible at guarding a house as they are not aggressive to humans however they would never tolerate another dog no matter the size or breed. In either case its important and you’re responsibility to know that ahead of time so that you know how to best manage your dog’s temperment. The worst thing though is having to deal with the repercussions of a mistake when its regarding a pet you really love though because you put him in a situation that could have gotten him hurt.

    Most people do little research on their dogs bloodline before they get them. In your case, it would have been impossible too as you adopted her and baring a genetics test know little about its breed. I don’t fault you wanting to do the right thing for your dog by socializing her. Unfortunately, its just not in the nature of a lot of bully breeds of dog to exist well with other dogs especially of the same gender. There are exceptions but the only way to figure out if your dog is the exception or the rule is by putting them in that situation. Then, you can have the mess that you do have on your hands. Also, dogs don’t forget fights. It can take months to reverse/fix a bad experience.

    Some other things you might want to try with her would be weight pulling or coursing or even dock jumping. Working dogs need jobs to do. They were created to be gritty strong and powerful animals for a reason. Whether your dog cuddles better than a baby and is really sweet to you or not, it still has drives and tendancies that you cant ever break it from. The only thing you can do is manage it.
    My dog will absolutely kill you if you break into my house or walk into my back yard however if I introduce you to him, then you put your face down there, YOU WILL get some tongue action LOL. I know that about him so in general, I don’t let strange people pet him because you just never know what stupid ass thing somebody will do ( like the vet who physically tried to MAKE him sit) so its important to have rules to protect the dog. For instance, my dog is not overly suspicious of humans because he knows I wont let one approach him without my permission. I really don’t care if the person understands or not. I know what he’s capable of and I am the one who owns him. Also, the only contact he will have with another dog will be when its time for him to breed. There is a chance that he’s actually friendly with other dogs but judging by the way he postures, I would say probably not. For that reason, there’s no playdates scheduled with him and another dog.

    The dog park incident will blow over most likely. Your dog is fine. Just know what you are working with so that you will know your dogs limitation. At the end of the day, you just don’t have the right breed for a dog park situation. There is a very good chance that your dog will just not tolerate another dog being dominate or challenging. Its nothing wrong with that and your dog is not misbehaving but rather being who it is.

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    So just when do people think a dog should be considered worthy of getting a warning that might lead to it being put down?

    Last December I was walking my dog and there was an altercation and my dog was bitten on the nose by the other dog, a shiba inu. My dogs nose bled for sometime.

    Should I have reported this? Should the shiba inu's people treat it as a dangerous dog?

    My sister's old dog bit my old dog on three different occasions. Should it have been put down?
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  16. #36
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    Cupid, I'm sorry this happened - it's clear this is very upsetting to you as I'm sure it was to the others involved. I think you are wise to stay away from the dog park and to be very careful about interactions with other people and dogs in the future. Hopefully this incident is a warning that will help you and your dog have a safer, happy and long future together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    So just when do people think a dog should be considered worthy of getting a warning that might lead to it being put down?

    Last December I was walking my dog and there was an altercation and my dog was bitten on the nose by the other dog, a shiba inu. My dogs nose bled for sometime.

    Should I have reported this? Should the shiba inu's people treat it as a dangerous dog?

    My sister's old dog bit my old dog on three different occasions. Should it have been put down?
    I think it depends. The circumstances have to be considered. Dogs will fight under certain circumstances and occasionally fur will fly and someone will bleed. 99.9% of the time the conflict is resolved very quickly and one dog will submit to the other. However, if there is a disparity in size or one dog is determined to kill (doesn't stop the fight as soon as one dog submits), it's a strange dog, or other circumstances, then perhaps yes.

    I was walking my Akita in our neighborhood one night. I heard people talking so we crossed to the other side of the street. Suddenly a big male lab came dashing up. He put his nose on Molly's butt and literally before I could react, she had him on the ground. And me too since I still had the leash around my wrist. The male submitted, she shook herself and walked away. The other dog got to his feet, tucked his tail between his legs and ran for home. The neighbors were screaming and running around like chickens trying to apologize to me. I told them not to worry about it and went on with the walk. So, it depends. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. Most of the time, really dangerous situations could have been avoided if the people involved used their heads and thought.

    Example: I rented a house for a while. The house was behind the landlord's house and we shared a fenced yard. They had a border collie. The first day we were there, I came home at lunch to let my dog out to pee. We went for a walk. When we returned, the collie was out in the yard and wouldn't let us back through the gate. I had to take my dog back to work with me. If the collie hadn't growled, she'd have been fine, but she never forgot. I had to make certain they were never out at the same time. Then one day the landlords stupid son let his dog out while Molly was outside. She had it by the throat with the intention of killing it. I got ahold of her and told them to get their dog. My dog weighed 90lb to their 30lb. They picked him up and then let him go. He came for my dog again and in the melee, I got bit on the hand. I just let her go at that point. She could have killed the little beast for all I cared. I kicked the collie in the head and grabbed my dog, bleeding hand and all and got her under control. The neighbors were totally useless. I told them to just get out of my effing way so I could put my dog in the house and drive myself to the ER.
    Last edited by rfisher; 08-17-2012 at 01:26 AM.
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  18. #38
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    there are people that i think should not be allowed to ever leave their house but i dont have that authority (yet)
    to suggest making a dog a shut in isnt really very helpful
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    So just when do people think a dog should be considered worthy of getting a warning that might lead to it being put down?
    When the dog seriously mauls someone or someone's pet. There's a difference between two dogs having a tiff and a dog that eviscerates another dog, or disfigures a child. There's a difference between a toy dog nipping at heels and a dog that goes for the throat.

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    We adopted our Bessie when she was 8 weeks old from a rescue. We thought she was a lab/beagle mix based on her appearance and what they knew of her mother (who died when she was a week old). I'm 90% sure she's doberman, lab, some sort of terrier and something barky. She has a very high prey drive, and we haven't taken her to a dog park since she was about 6 months old. Nothing happened, but she started being a little more aggressive to the pugs who were there as well. Even at 4 months, she wanted to play with the much bigger dogs, and roughhoused with them. But she wanted to eat the Jack Russell down the street. Norma Jean's idiot owner was always drunk walking her, and let her approach Bess aggressively, which would get her going (Norma Jean has since died). She is fine with puppies, and is in fact very protective of them (we fostered a litter), but absolutely hates small dogs. But heaven help you if you come to my house. The pizza guys call her Cujo and know not to ring the doorbell.

    Since we've discovered her inability to control herself around small dogs, we just don't put her in a situation that sets her up for failure. Our vet schedules us either first or last in the day, and makes sure no small dogs are scheduled around her. She's fine with big dogs, and has a big brother and a (bigger) baby sister. She actually does best when she is in the pack and they calm her down - they are the laziest, most laid back labs you'll ever see. The vet thinks it is some fear aggression, and some is her protectiveness towards me. She tries to protect me from everyone, and actually does better at the vet when my husband takes her. She goes to the groomer every few months, who says that she is the best behaved of the three, and just wants to be told she's a good girl.

    This is your first incident. Don't take her back to the dog park. Expect a police report or animal control report to be filed. If there are vet bills for the other dog, pay them. Now you know, so you can deal with her behaviors appropriately.
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