Skate Canada's international selection criteria for Senior B & JGP assignments

[hohoho]

I believe she done Broadmoor and Detroit comps too

[Sylvia]

I've heard that Kate Charbonneau scored somewhere in the 120s (total score) at the MN State Championships last weekend. I believe that's been her only summer competition this year, correct?

Charbonneau's highest summer competition score that I know of is 132.77 at Skate Detroit (91.63 in FS Final round), up from her 112.16 total at Broadmoor Open in June (where she intentionally doubled most of her jumps in her FS).

[danafan]

I don't disagree with giving Lacoste and Osmond the senior Bs. I just don't know what they are thinking in regards to the host pick for Skate Canada. And not using the second spot at the US senior B doesnt make sense since they are using both spots for mens, pairs, and dance.

[Erin]

And not using the second spot at the US senior B doesnt make sense since they are using both spots for mens, pairs, and dance.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I guess I had assumed that perhaps the US didn't want a second Canadian lady (and I wouldn't be able to blame them if so ), but if we really are entitled to send two ladies, it does seem silly not to send Charbonneau, given that she has met the SC standards.

[kwanfan1818]

According to the event announcement, the US can send three for each discipline, Canada two, and all other Feds one. Whether the US wants or doesn't want a second Canadian Lady should be irrelevant, because they officially invited Canada to send two. (They should be happy: entry fee plus relatively easy competition for their skaters.)

Next year, when there's history, they could follow the Nebelhorn example and make spots based on the prior year's results, but unless Canada launches its own Senior B, that would be nasty, since it's the only Senior B on the NA continent. I wish the privilege had been extended to Mexico, too.

[judge]

Godfrey (88.52)*

*Yes, he deserved to be last, but, no, he didn't deserve those appallingly low PCS scores.

Why do you think that he didn't deserve the PC scores that he got? He had a couple of poor performances, especially in the free.

[kwanfan1818]

Godfrey made even Ten look scratchy by comparison.

[blademate]

I believe Skate Canada has basically washed it's hands of the current crop of Senior Ladies - Charbonneau and Grenier included - and is focused on developing the promising crop of Junior talent, with the hope at least a few will survive puberty and save Canadian ladies skating.

Lacoste is obviously an exception at this point, but if she loses the National title to Osmond or anyone else, I suspect Skate Canada will be pretty much done with her as well, barring significant improvements.

Based on the results of this year's summer competitions, IMO, this may be a wise strategy.

[Rafter]

I'm actually surprised SC hasn't washed their hands of Lacoste too.

It'll be interesting to see where Phaneuf fits in to all of this.

[hohoho]

SC can't discard of Lacoste yet. She is national champion.

Unless Phaneuf improves her jump confidence she may have to reconsider her skating career

[judge]

Godfrey made even Ten look scratchy by comparison.

So that might partially explain your thoughts on skating skills. What about the rest of them? There is a lot more than skating flow to PC marks, fyi.

[kwanfan1818]

So that might partially explain your thoughts on skating skills. What about the rest of them? There is a lot more than skating flow to PC marks, fyi.

According to the criteria:

• Balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement
• Flow and effortless glide
• Rhythm, strength, clean strokes, and an efficient use of lean create a steady run to the blade and an ease of transfer of weight resulting in seemingly effortless power and acceleration.
• Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns
• The skater should demonstrate clean and controlled curves, deep edges, and steps.
• Varied use of power/energy, speed, and acceleration
• Variety is the gradation – some of which may be subtle
• Multi directional skating
• Includes all direction of skating: forward and backward, clockwise and counterclockwise including rotation in both directions.
• Mastery of one foot skating--No over use of skating on two feet.

It's very difficult to have flow -- true flow, not just powering through -- without having cleanness and sureness of the edges, steps, and turns, and he managed to maintain through varied use of speed and acceleration. He didn't appear to me to have significantly less multi-directional skating or significantly more two-footed skating than other some of the other men in the competition who scored at least 2 points higher than him and among the junior skaters who scored higher than them. (CoP judging doesn't have separate standards for Juniors.) When moving, on the whole he looked well centered and controlled, although he was clearly demoralized by the end of his FS.

His jumps were a mess, but, on the other hand, Liam Firus fell four times and had at least one very skating spin entrance as well, or major failures on 40% of his elements. I wouldn't put Godfrey in the same league as Firus -- I think there are two types of skaters, the strength skaters and the softer ones (Reynolds these days, Takahashi, Abbott, Korzuka, Gachinsky for example), and that of the strength skaters, only Patrick Chan surpasses him on his blades. However, looking at how close the range of PCS were for each skater, similar to most international judging, was a huge but familiar disappointment, as the point of CoP is to give credit where it is due, and what I see was the equivalent of ordinal placements, and the dismissal of what I saw were a skater's strengths.

[Sylvia]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I guess I had assumed that perhaps the US didn't want a second Canadian lady (and I wouldn't be able to blame them if so ), but if we really are entitled to send two ladies, it does seem silly not to send Charbonneau, given that she has met the SC standards.

I agree that Charbonneau deserves to be considered for a Senior B based on her summer performances (Skate Detroit FS Final, MN State Champs SP), but maybe Skate Canada is only sending 1 lady to Salt Lake City because they are trying to give Lacoste the opportunity to gain more ISU World Standings ranking points to improve her Grand Prix starting order number? This what I posted in the Salt Lake Senior B thread in GSD:

Here's how the Skate Canada SP start order would look like based on the current ISU World Standings:
?? TBA CAN
82 Kaetlyn Osmond CAN - 338 points
55 Gracie Gold USA - 700
26 Caroline Zhang USA - 1315
21 Amélie Lacoste CAN - 1536 (has a chance to move into 2nd group IF she places top 4 in Salt Lake and Liza T. doesn't compete in a Sr B before SC)
---
14 Elizaveta Tuktamysheva RUS - 1694
11 Ksenia Makarova RUS
10 Elene Gedevanishvili GEO
6 Kanako Murakami JPN
2 Akiko Suzuki JPN

[Rafter]

SC can't discard of Lacoste yet. She is national champion.

Unless Phaneuf improves her jump confidence she may have to reconsider her skating career

Lacoste wouldn't be the first ladies national champion SC has discarded.

[Rafter]

His jumps were a mess, but, on the other hand, Liam Firus fell four times and had at least one very skating spin entrance as well, or major failures on 40% of his elements.

Firus fell FOUR times? Ugh. Any sign of a 3A?

[Rafter]

I agree that Charbonneau deserves to be considered for a Senior B based on her summer performances (Skate Detroit FS Final, MN State Champs SP), but maybe Skate Canada is only sending 1 lady to Salt Lake City because they are trying to give Lacoste the opportunity to gain more ISU World Standings ranking points to improve her Grand Prix starting order number? This what I posted in the Salt Lake Senior B thread in GSD:

Here's how the Skate Canada SP start order would look like based on the current ISU World Standings:
?? TBA CAN
82 Kaetlyn Osmond CAN - 338 points
55 Gracie Gold USA - 700
26 Caroline Zhang USA - 1315
21 Amélie Lacoste CAN - 1536 (has a chance to move into 2nd group IF she places top 4 in Salt Lake and Liza T. doesn't compete in a Sr B before SC)
---
14 Elizaveta Tuktamysheva RUS - 1694
11 Ksenia Makarova RUS
10 Elene Gedevanishvili GEO
6 Kanako Murakami JPN
2 Akiko Suzuki JPN

I suspect Charbonneau's season last year is also factored into the decision of not getting any assignments.

As for Skate Canada caring about Lacoste's start order, I'm not quite sure why they'd care....it's not like she has a shot of the podium or anything.

What does one vs. two ladies being sent to SLC have to do with her ranking? Or are you saying that they're only sending Lacoste in case Charbonneau were to happen to beat Lacoste there?

[Sylvia]

Firus fell FOUR times? Ugh. Any sign of a 3A?

Yes, Firus attempted 3A in his FS and fell (got credit for rotating it according to the protocol) -- kwanfan1818 wrote up a Senior Men's FS report in the BC SummerSkate thread here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...60#post3661960

Or are you saying that they're only sending Lacoste in case Charbonneau were to happen to beat Lacoste there?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say -- just my hypothesis.

[lyneyuki]

Firus fell FOUR times? Ugh. Any sign of a 3A?

Close

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/super-...orded/24760537

at 0:59 sec

[kwanfan1818]

Firus fell FOUR times? Ugh. Any sign of a 3A?

He fell on 3A attempts in both the SP and FS, both fully rotated at least. The landings didn't look close though, like when a jump is great until the blade slips out on landing at the last minute. He downgraded a combo in the FS to 1A/2T: I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a 3A/2T or a 2A/2T/2T (since he didn't have a three-jump combo), and his other two combos were 2A/3T and 2Lz/3T, which I assume was supposed to be 3Lz/3T, like in the SP.

[kwanfan1818]

I agree that Charbonneau deserves to be considered for a Senior B based on her summer performances (Skate Detroit FS Final, MN State Champs SP), but maybe Skate Canada is only sending 1 lady to Salt Lake City because they are trying to give Lacoste the opportunity to gain more ISU World Standings ranking points to improve her Grand Prix starting order number? This what I posted in the Salt Lake Senior B thread in GSD:

Do you mean by not sending another Canadian Lady, there's not another Canadian Lady who can beat her and push her down the results, causing her to lose points?

The only two I can see who meets the SC criteria are Osmond, and she's going to Nebelhorn, and Kitty Qian, although since her hardest jump is 3Lo -- which won the Olympics for John Curry and Robin Cousins -- with 138.X at BC Summerskate, she might not "have attained a score that demonstrates a top 5 placement at that level of competition."

The way I'm reading the International Selection criteria, they can waive the minimum score from a 2012 summer competition requirement for JPG and Senior B's "in extenuating circumstances," but they don't have a provision to allow skaters to skip summer competitions and be assigned, unless they are top 5 at Worlds and assigned two GPs. They could claim "extenuating circumstances" for deSanctis, who was seen bleeding from her hand during her Thornhill FS, but she'd have to recover from that. She would have needed an 82 in the FS to meet the Sr. International minimum, which she did easily at Canadian Nationals last year (FS=96.61), but then so did Najarro, Charbonneau, Grenier, and Rheault. (Chartrand missed by under two points.)