Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 70
  1. #41
    Tranquillo
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    behind the gruppetto
    Posts
    24,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16667
    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Doping won't make you a great athlete. It will make a great athlete a little faster and a little stronger. I think one of the reasons the athletes are so willing to do it is because they don't see it as something that does the work for them; they see it as something that helps.
    There was an interesting article by Jonathan Vaughters in the NY Times a few days ago in which he finally openly admitted what he'd been hinting not too subtlely about for a number of years - that he doped as a pro rider.

    There is a bit of justification and self-righteousness in the article, but it is an interesting look at the question from someone who will admit to cheating and how the athlete can justify the actions. Many will see it as just trying to even the playing field.

    But it is also clear that winning isn’t possible if antidoping regulations aren’t enforced. If you just said no when the antidoping regulations weren’t enforced, then you were deciding to end your dream, because you could not be competitive. It’s the hard fact of doping
    The choice to kiss your childhood dream goodbye or live with a dishonest heart is horrid and tearing. I’ve been there, and I know. I chose to lie over killing my dream. I chose to dope
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  2. #42
    engaged to dupa
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
    Posts
    18,917
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1083
    I'm getting to the point I just don't care any more. If "everyone's doing it" then let 'em.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,133
    vCash
    699
    Rep Power
    17018
    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I'm getting to the point I just don't care any more. If "everyone's doing it" then let 'em.
    I kind of feel the same way.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Cuddling the sheep smilie
    Posts
    8,963
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3469
    I feel that way until I remember the damage does to the human body, and all the terrible secondary effects suffered by athletes who have been doping throughout the years: hormonal imbalance, cancer etc....

  5. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    3,025
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimena View Post
    Jamaica is not a rich country and I doubt they'd have the means to have a sophisticated doping program when their athletes are discovered as teens.
    The old Eastern Bloc countries had most of their populations living in poverty but they invested in their athletes, including in the early doping of the promising ones.

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oz, of course
    Posts
    11,355
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    There's not a serious athlete in the world that I would be shocked to find out that they were doping - including skaters. Surprised, yes, but not shocked.

  7. #47
    Resident Rude Brazilian
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The Nobunari Oda School of Arithmetics
    Posts
    3,025
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7276
    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I feel that way until I remember the damage does to the human body, and all the terrible secondary effects suffered by athletes who have been doping throughout the years: hormonal imbalance, cancer etc....
    Flo-jo died at a very young age, presumably as a consequence of doping...
    Dá-lhe, Isadora!!
    Lead me not into temptation. I can find it, and eat it, all by myself.

  8. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    10,417
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
    Flo-jo died at a very young age, presumably as a consequence of doping...
    I thought her autopsy showed no connection to dying from drug use?

  9. #49
    engaged to dupa
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
    Posts
    18,917
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1083
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I thought her autopsy showed no connection to dying from drug use?
    That's correct.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  10. #50
    Resident Rude Brazilian
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The Nobunari Oda School of Arithmetics
    Posts
    3,025
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7276
    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    That's correct.
    It was one of the hypothesis when she died, I fully admit to not reading too much further on the topic.
    What was the cause of death?
    Dá-lhe, Isadora!!
    Lead me not into temptation. I can find it, and eat it, all by myself.

  11. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    292
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
    It was one of the hypothesis when she died, I fully admit to not reading too much further on the topic.
    What was the cause of death?
    She had a seizure in her sleep.

  12. #52
    engaged to dupa
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
    Posts
    18,917
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1083
    Quote Originally Posted by beepbeep View Post
    It was one of the hypothesis when she died, I fully admit to not reading too much further on the topic.
    What was the cause of death?
    Suffocation during an epileptic seizure.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  13. #53

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    9,859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4867
    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I read a long article about Lance Armstrong a while back and was surprised to see quotes admitting to doping from bikers who were champions when I was a kid (I don't follow cycling, so this was new to me). But the gist of it was that doping in cycling has been so prevalent for so long that you can safely assume that any top cyclist for any of the last five decades (and possibly more) was or is a doper.
    I have a friend who is a big fan of cycling and watches the Tour de France every day as if it were a skating competition or something. (He claims there are lots of fun team tactics going on.)

    He claims that the way these tours are designed, i.e. the length of each stage, the steepness of the mountain roads and the number of consecutive days they have to keep it up, makes this an impossible feat for a human being without doping. He says this is why cycling can't get clean.

  14. #54
    Bountifully Enmeshed
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    At the Christmas Bizarre
    Posts
    37,696
    vCash
    250
    Rep Power
    15378
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    He claims that the way these tours are designed, i.e. the length of each stage, the steepness of the mountain roads and the number of consecutive days they have to keep it up, makes this an impossible feat for a human being without doping. He says this is why cycling can't get clean.
    Yes, one of the former champions said something very similiar, although of course I can't remember which one it was now.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  15. #55
    Quadless
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Celebrating the power of Pooh
    Posts
    14,928
    vCash
    325
    Rep Power
    15842
    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    I know you obviously follow the sport more closely than I do, but can you enlighten me as to how you are so confident that so many specific people are doping if they haven't been caught? Is it only because of sudden improvement? If you're going to dub someone "Pharmelita Cheater" I would hope you have some real knowledge, because that's a terrible thing to call someone based on speculation alone.
    There's a doping thread somewhere in this forum in which poths explained his rationale for strongly suspecting someone of doping. IIRC, there were three factors:

    - sudden and significant improvement in performance at a life stage in which athlete improvement is typically only incremental

    - substantial change in physical appearance (he linked photos of Jeter several years ago vs. her current appearance - to put it bluntly, she is much more masculine in her appearance today than she was just a few years ago)

    - association with known dopers (especially coach)

    Jeter had all three characteristics. I don't remember all the details, but IMO his analysis was compelling. Speculation, yes, but well-reasoned speculation.

    ETA: I'm not sure if a link to this commentary by a college professor and author who has studied and written about doping throughout his career has already been provided somewhere in this forum.

    The question is not why athletes cheat for an edge but why we as fans continue to watch these increasingly tainted spectacles. What does that say about the human soul?

    And what will it take to cure fans of their addiction to the tainted spectacles?

    Steroids scandals have ruined the appetite for track and field, but the sport remains a centerpiece of the Olympics. The Tour de France continues to draw gigantic crowds. Disclosures of the debilitating long-term health effects of football have not dulled our craving for N.F.L. Sundays.

    ......

    And Yesalis, despite all he knows, intently watches the Olympics.

    How can he?

    “When I watch a Spielberg movie or a Lucas movie, maybe afterward I might be interested in how a special effect was done,” Yesalis said. “But I really don’t care during the movie.
    Last edited by BittyBug; 08-15-2012 at 06:08 AM.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  16. #56
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,742
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5719
    So anyway back to Ostapchuk and she's bleating like crazy

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Valeries-the-...2/Default.aspx


  17. #57

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Cuddling the sheep smilie
    Posts
    8,963
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3469
    And this is why she felt free to take the risk... the Belorussian authorities want medals; positive drug tests only help them spread conspiracy theories and further national propaganda.

  18. #58
    Tranquillo
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    behind the gruppetto
    Posts
    24,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16667
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I have a friend who is a big fan of cycling and watches the Tour de France every day as if it were a skating competition or something. (He claims there are lots of fun team tactics going on.)

    He claims that the way these tours are designed, i.e. the length of each stage, the steepness of the mountain roads and the number of consecutive days they have to keep it up, makes this an impossible feat for a human being without doping. He says this is why cycling can't get clean.
    I'm a big cycling fan, and I certainly think the course can be done without doping, but I also think that for much of the recent past, it would be hard to be competitive for the GC without some assistance. But even for someone as cynical as I am about this issue, some of the current riders really give me hope.

    And your friend is right about the team tactics and the lots of daily competitions for stage wins that don't have anything to do with the GC. Plus the three Grand Tours all have fantastic scenery!
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  19. #59
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,095
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    As for the person who doesn't think doping will help you land a quad toe- that's just not true. You take drugs to increase your strength to help you gain the ability to do it, you take drugs to increase your stamina to help you get through the program, and you take beta-blockers to calm your nerves to help you with the performance anxiety and to steady yourself. These things are sure going the help you with your quad toe over competitors who haven't doped. Skating seems to be a very clean sport, but there are cheaters in every sport.
    Yes.

    Whilst the advantage of doping in skating isn't as apparent, if you speak to any elite level skaters, they will tell you that stamina is a huge issue.

    Especially if you want to maximise your points by landing jumps later in the program.

    Whilst drugs would not help you on the biomechanics of triple and quadruple jumps, they could ensure you have enough strength to actually execute them in the program (provided you already know how to do them - doping won't help you with that).

  20. #60
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,401
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I have a friend who is a big fan of cycling and watches the Tour de France every day as if it were a skating competition or something. (He claims there are lots of fun team tactics going on.)

    He claims that the way these tours are designed, i.e. the length of each stage, the steepness of the mountain roads and the number of consecutive days they have to keep it up, makes this an impossible feat for a human being without doping. He says this is why cycling can't get clean.
    Hasn't this race been around for awhile? Is the course a lot longer than say the course in the 1920's? How did they cheat then?

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •