Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,152
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    New choreographic sequence: dumb rule?

    So I was reading up on the new technical requirements.

    While I like the option of a choreographic sequence instead of a spiral sequence, the fact that it MUST come after the step sequence seems really restrictive.

    Think of programs with great spiral sequences in the beginning or middle -- ala Ashley Wagner's "Black Swan" -- that wouldn't be scored because their placement in the program.

    I bet we'll see a whole bunch of programs whose endings will consist of straightline steps and one poorly done spiral to end ... Miki Ando I'm looking at you.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Does it? Mirai Nagasu and Vanessa Lam's choreo sequences don't come after their steps.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1012
    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    Does it? Mirai Nagasu and Vanessa Lam's choreo sequences don't come after their steps.
    Choreographic Sequences Rules Free Skating

    The choreographic sequence consist of any kind of movements such as steps, turns, spirals, arabesques, spread eagles, Ina Bauers, hydroblading, transitional (unlisted) jumps, spinning movements etc. A Choreographic Sequence for Ladies must include at least one spiral (not a kick) of any length. The Sequence commences with the first move and is concluded with the last move of the skater. The pattern is not restricted, but the Sequence must fully utilize the ice surface. If this requirement is not fulfilled, the Sequence will have no value. The Choreographic Sequence is included in Free Skating and has to be performed after the Step Sequence. The Choreographic Sequence has a base value and will be evaluated by the judges in GOE only.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Oh, I thought the original poster meant they came consecutively. My bad! It doesn't make much sense, you're right. It takes even more away from the concept of "free skating".

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,937
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33912
    Well they all have the same base value but the judges will look at the quality of it. Do a good quality sequence that uses the music and you will get credit for it. I think we need to see how works in a number of programs before we can judge whether it is successful or not.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,173
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't quite understand the notion that there has to be a specific section in the program for "choreography". Shouldn't the whole program have choreography in it? And forget the whole idea of musicality, putting spirals and field moves in places that accent the music, because it *must* be after the steps even if that makes so sense. It's an awful rule.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    This rule makes no sense at all.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Driving the Han Yan Fan Van
    Posts
    9,177
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    34705
    I can see that it was intended to get rid of the repetitive spiral #1/catchfoot spiral #2/show your crotch spiral #3 that everyone seemed to perform to get the levels. And then to tweak the "a spiral sequence can include ONLY spirals" problem. But yeah, the idea sure doesn't seem to encourage the choreographic freedom that was intended. Surely there'll be a few good ones--partly due to good choreographers and partly just happy coincidence of the music calling for a full-out step sequence BEFORE a bunch of moves in the field--but gag. I don't think I like it as written.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,461
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20970
    I understand the reasoning behind it as the scoring rules developed. I also agree with the problems others have identified with it and expect to see more changes in upcoming seasons.

    (Looking only at senior singles -- junior rules have not always matched the seniors and don't now, and pairs have other complications)

    ca. 2000, the Well-Balanced Program rules were changed from guidelines or expectations to requirements and required a step sequence and a spiral sequence for ladies and a step sequence and a field moves sequence for men.

    With the introduction of the IJS the WBP rules changed to allow one step sequence and one spiral sequence for ladies and two step sequences for men, with levels.

    After several years, the powers that be thought that skaters were putting too much emphasis and spending too much time on earning levels in these sequences and not enough on the quality of execution or the choreography of the program as a whole.

    The first change was to remove one spin from the senior long programs to allow more time for choreography between elements.

    The next change, just a couple years ago, was to remove the levels from one of the sequences -- second step sequence for men, spiral sequence for women -- so that skaters could use that element to showcase choreography and unique skills rather than to chase difficulty levels. These were renamed as "Choreographic Step Sequence" and Choreographic Spiral Sequence."

    For the ladies, there was still a clear difference between the step sequence and the spiral sequence, so there was no need to specify the order. For the men, the tech panel needed to know which of the two step sequences to call levels on and which to just call as Choreo steps. The simplest solution for the tech panel's (and computer programming and data input) purposes was to give levels only to the first sequence in the program and always to call the second sequence as Choreo. From an athletic point of view that also makes sense for the skaters -- get the more technically difficult sequence done earlier in the program on fresher legs -- but from an artistic point of view it does limit the options somewhat.

    This year, both men and ladies do a Choreographic Sequence -- the ladies have to include at least one spiral position, but it doesn't have to be held 3 seconds or longer. And brief spiral positions or other glides are always allowed in step sequences even if they don't add features.

    For both men and ladies, these choreo sequences might look just like typical step sequences or just like typical leveled or pre-IJS spiral sequences or the early-21st century men's field moves sequences, or they might not look like anything that was identified as an element under previous WBP rules but just a full rink's worth of transitions/"in-betweens".

    Just in case they look like step sequences, tech panels need to know which sequence to call levels on and which one to call as the choreo sequence. So the rule that was put in place for men two years ago (the first sequence gets a level, the second one gets called as choreo) was also extended to the ladies.

    Makes perfect sense if you look at it historically.

    However, it does limit the program construction options from an artistic point of view.

    I wonder if they will delete the choreo sequence entirely and just "require" skaters to include choreography between the elements.

    Or if they'll find some way to have tech panels call levels for both sequences and then delete the level call for whichever one would get the lower level so that the elements can be planned to fit the music and theme more than the rules without losing points.

    I guess we'll have to wait a couple seasons for skaters and choreographers to figure out how to make these sequences make sense choreographically and not just look like typical spiral or step sequences.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,176
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Since step sequences have become overly complex and slow anyway, maybe skaters can now finally build to a climax towards the end of the program with a choreographic sequence and explode with some emotion and speeeeed.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,158
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4049
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Since step sequences have become overly complex and slow anyway, maybe skaters can now finally build to a climax towards the end of the program with a choreographic sequence and explode with some emotion and speeeeed.
    I can definately see this as being an advantage. While im against anything that further restricts the concept of "free skating", I cannot stand the slow/laboured step sequence, so it will be nice to see something actually good towards the end of the program (in theory).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •