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  1. #121
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    To be fair, a team of Abbott and Rippon in 2012 didn't do any better than the rookies, at least both Dornbush and Miner managed to finish in the top 12 in 2011.

    I also don't believe a combo of Abbott and Weir will get us 3 spots back either. In fact, I'm all for leaving Abbott at home.

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    Weir skated his best and placed only 6th in Vancouver when the level of mens skating was like 40% what it is right now. How Weir on the team would increase the chances of 3 spots is beyond me. As for Weir being on the team over Abbott, Abbott would have to majorly bomb Nationals for that to happen and he doesnt usually do that of late. To be honest I think a bunch of people would have to bomb Nationals for Weir to make it, unless he comes out doing things he has never done in his career. I do think Lysacek is more likely to make the team but I dont think any combination of 2 men is safe to get 3 spots for Worlds. I dont believe any U.S man is likely to medal at the 2013 Worlds so the pressure will be on both to place in the top 7.

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    Weir can stay at home too. I'm not a fan of Evan at all, but he's really clutch when he needs to be internationally, so I'm all for him going. But good luck on the US getting three spots back, no matter who they send, it's going to be tough.

  4. #124

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    I dont think any combination of 2 men is safe to get 3 spots for Worlds
    Agree. The international standard is very high now. It's more about the collective strength of the international men, than the strength/weakness of the US men.

  5. #125
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    In discussing who will give the US men the best chance to earn 3 spots for Sochi at '13 Worlds, it would probably be any combination of Evan, Johnny and Jeremy. I will say that Richard, IF he dramatically builds on what he showed us at Glacier Falls during the GP series, could accompany one of them and get 13 pts.

    Of Evan, Jeremy, and Johnny, I would like to see during the course of the season who puts it together best:

    -Will Johnny succeed technically with a Quad and transitions?

    -Will Evan bring back his A Game with a Quad?

    -Will Jeremy finally hold it together? Will the return of the other 2 inspire him or rattle him?

    Don't laugh, but I think Johnny has the best shot of the 3 to reach his goals.

  6. #126
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    It's just speculation and guessing at this point, but hey what else we got?




    Both Dornbush and Miner will be a year older and have more experience, but I don't see the judges giving them both a "push". Now with more big names in the mix, forget about it! There's only room for one twinky on team USA.


    Assuming they all go on to skate well, I could totally see a Lysacek/Dornbush ticket with the best chance to get us three spots.

    Lysacek/Dornbush
    Lysacek/Miner

    Weir/Dornbush
    Weir/Miner

    Abbott/Dornbush
    Abbott/Miner

    It's a mix & match game.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    And you know this already in August without having seen any of the skaters or their programs in peak condition? Mmmkay then. I sincerely hope the judges won't be as biased as you are. If you want to turn the public away from skating forever, then the worst thing for the USFSA to do is to prejudge the competition. What would this be then . . . 1998 Olympic ice dancing all over again?


    No need to get all dramatic. If I had instead said Abbott and Mahbanoozadeh, or Abbott and Farris, would you have made the same accusation? My opinion is shaped by Lysacek's well-known training habits and competitive drive, and the two times I've seen Dornbush compete this summer in person, and the general competitive histories of the top U.S. men. They seem like pretty solid picks to me.

    Anyway, the Grand Prix will give us more insight as to where they all actually stand relative to each other, since there are so many head-to-head matchups.

    Abbott vs. Lysacek at Skate America
    Dornbush vs. Weir at Rostelecom Cup
    Abbott vs. Weir at Trophee Eric Bompard
    Dornbush vs. Miner vs. Rippon at NHK Trophy

    That last one should be a doozy for the young guns.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Was he still having pre-rotation problems on the triple axel in the 2009-10 season? If so, can you (or anybody else) point me to some examples?
    Examples: pretty much every single 3axel Lysacek has performed in competition (that does include the one from the Olympics SP and both ones from the Olympics FS)

    Olympics SP: http://youtu.be/ZqbQpiriYCU?t=3h49m15s

    Olympics FS: http://youtu.be/KmJgGHIoawU?t=6m26s

  9. #129
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    Evan's 3A in his Olympics SP was one of the best he has ever done. There wasn't any more pre-rotations on that jump than what you'd normally see in the other top skaters.

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    All things considered I think Evan, if he makes the team, would have the best chance of any U.S man to finish as high as maybe 5th or 6th. However if we assume a finish like that for Evan then the other U.S man, whoever that is, would have to finish almost directly behind him. I dont think any of Abbott (usually bombs at Worlds, and even when he doesnt no great international rep at this point), Dorbush (not really established internationally, streaky last season), Miner (not enough ability barring major improvements), or Weir (what I already said) would be likely to finish as high as 7th, so with no combination are the U.S men likely to regain 3 spots IMO, let alone safe to.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I don't think there is any question that Johnny is the more authentic of the two
    And this matters because.....? Authenticity isn't one of the CoP judging components.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    All things considered I think Evan, if he makes the team, would have the best chance of any U.S man to finish as high as maybe 5th or 6th. However if we assume a finish like that for Evan then the other U.S man, whoever that is, would have to finish almost directly behind him. I dont think any of Abbott (usually bombs at Worlds, and even when he doesnt no great international rep at this point), Dorbush (not really established internationally, streaky last season), Miner (not enough ability barring major improvements), or Weir (what I already said) would be likely to finish as high as 7th, so with no combination are the U.S men likely to regain 3 spots IMO, let alone safe to.
    Errr...is not like the rest of the skaters are models of consistency either. One day you can be a bronze medal and the next not even be in the top Ten. For now Chan & Takahashi are the standard, but the rest are interchangeable.


    Let's get those three spots people!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Evan's 3A in his Olympics SP was one of the best he has ever done. There wasn't any more pre-rotations on that jump than what you'd normally see in the other top skaters.
    Look at the slo-mo I linked to in my last post.

    He clearly pre-rotates by 1/4, with his weight on the blade, generating lots of snow on the take-off.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Errr...is not like the rest of the skaters are models of consistency either. One day you can be a bronze medal and the next not even be in the top Ten. For now Chan & Takahashi are the standard, but the rest are interchangeable.


    Let's get those three spots people!!!

    Like Kozuka and Gachinski from 2011 to 2012!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by legjumper View Post


    No need to get all dramatic. If I had instead said Abbott and Mahbanoozadeh, or Abbott and Farris, would you have made the same accusation? My opinion is shaped by Lysacek's well-known training habits and competitive drive, and the two times I've seen Dornbush compete this summer in person, and the general competitive histories of the top U.S. men. They seem like pretty solid picks to me.

    Anyway, the Grand Prix will give us more insight as to where they all actually stand relative to each other, since there are so many head-to-head matchups.

    Abbott vs. Lysacek at Skate America
    Dornbush vs. Weir at Rostelecom Cup
    Abbott vs. Weir at Trophee Eric Bompard
    Dornbush vs. Miner vs. Rippon at NHK Trophy

    That last one should be a doozy for the young guns.
    These match-ups are mouthwatering.

    I don't care who makes the world team this year. I'll be happy to root for any of them. As long as we send the strongest team to get us those three spots, I'll be ok with it.

    If someone chokes at worlds again, I'll be so pissed! lol





    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Like Kozuka and Gachinski from 2011 to 2012!
    lol

    Exactly my point.

  16. #136
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    I agree that we're all guessing and predicting, and it will ultimately come down to results of GPF circuit and Nationals. I also agree it will not be a slam dunk for any combination of 2 U.S. men to get 3 spots back, unless Johnny and Evan get selected for Worlds and are in great form and are able to consistently execute at least one quad or quad combo. The factor in their favor is their international experience, but the question mark will be do they still have endurance, fitness and skills that they can consistently execute. Another question will be whether or not Johnny will be given the credit he deserves if he performs well. Another factor will be if Dornbush, Miner, Abbott and even Rippon perform consistently well all season, which is not out of the realm of possibility. I'd rather U.S. judges be faced with making a very difficult decision with everyone performing well.

    At this point, Dornbush and Miner are a lot better known internationally than they were in 2011. Despite a lot of fans downplaying Miner's skills, he is a strong competitor and a proven consistent skater. The question is whether or not he will have a reliable quad. If Dornbush and Miner both perform well it may come down to who has the more reliable quad. If all the top guys perform well at Nationals, I do think that Johnny and Evan might be the ones to go to Worlds. However, if either falter in successfully and reliably completing quads, at least one spot may go to a younger skater who has the quad and who achieves success during the season and at Nationals.

    In order to gain back 3 spots, whichever two U.S. men get to go to Worlds, they must perform lights out there. The judging will have to be fair as well.

    BTW, to state the obvious, of course displaying "authenticity" is not exactly something skaters are scored on. As a fan, it is something that I feel can enhance skaters' performances as well as my enjoyment in watching them.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 08-13-2012 at 03:04 AM.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Look at the slo-mo I linked to in my last post.

    He clearly pre-rotates by 1/4, with his weight on the blade, generating lots of snow on the take-off.
    Youtube kept crashing on me so I couldn't look at your specific examples but I certainly wouldn't consider that pre-rotation based on your description. While an axel is said to take off forwards it really doesn't. Your body ends up being square to the take-off edge (hopefully that makes sense). Also, there are very few triple axels that don't have a skid and the ones that don't are usually inconsistent, like Sandhu.
    "Beautiful things don't ask for attention." -The Secret Life of Walter Mitty

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by made_in_canada View Post
    Youtube kept crashing on me so I couldn't look at your specific examples but I certainly wouldn't consider that pre-rotation based on your description. While an axel is said to take off forwards it really doesn't. Your body ends up being square to the take-off edge (hopefully that makes sense). Also, there are very few triple axels that don't have a skid and the ones that don't are usually inconsistent, like Sandhu.
    Yes, I know all of that.

    Some skid/pre-rotation will always happen on the edge jumps. Such is their nature.

    In Lysacek's case, it was consistently more pronounced and apparent than what you usually see from other skaters.

  19. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Weir skated his best and placed only 6th in Vancouver when the level of mens skating was like 40% what it is right now. How Weir on the team would increase the chances of 3 spots is beyond me. As for Weir being on the team over Abbott, Abbott would have to majorly bomb Nationals for that to happen and he doesnt usually do that of late. To be honest I think a bunch of people would have to bomb Nationals for Weir to make it, unless he comes out doing things he has never done in his career. I do think Lysacek is more likely to make the team but I dont think any combination of 2 men is safe to get 3 spots for Worlds.
    I don't always agree with judgejudy but I have to agree with this assessment of Weir. I think there is almost no chance that Weir will be on the team.

  20. #140
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    Now that they can judge the takeoff edge in slow motion, Evan might be in some trouble on his flip.

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