Gymnastics News No.12 Part Deux!

[LuckyCharm]

Gabby Douglas on Oprah's Next Chapter airs tonight 7:30 CST.

[morqet]

What's the difference between the E jury score and the E reference scores, and why do they occasionally apply the reference score instead?

[danafan]

What's the difference between the E jury score and the E reference scores, and why do they occasionally apply the reference score instead?

FIG decided to add a reference panel this Olympic cycle. It's hard to tell exactly when their scores are used - it seems to be if their score is more than .3 ish out of range of the E score average. It's the FIG's way of accountability, though why not only have the E reference judges if the FIG trusts them so much.

Amazingly the ER panel brought Raisman's floor score up in qualifications in London, whereas in 2010 worlds they brought her apparatus finals score down, leaving her off the podium. My how things can change....

[morqet]

Thank you It just seems to make everything more complicated!

[danafan]

This is the official FIG document on the reference judges.
http://figdocs.sportcentric.net/exte...?document=3135

[Karpenko]

McKayla Maroney - Vault Team Final:

E1: 9.7
E2: 9.7
E3: 9.8
E4: 9.7
E5: 9.8

ER1: 9.6
ER2: 9.9

I genuinely think that had vault been the 3rd rotation and the US wasn't the very first team to go, that one would have been a 10.0. The 2nd reserve judge was the closest to getting it right. ( at that 9.6, really?) Thanks for posting danafan

[Choupette]

I don't think she completely stuck it however, she was still moving forward a little, but it was very close! If you look at that picture where the judges are in awe, her heels aren't quite on the ground and that's how I had seen it too.

[her grace]

Nadia didn't stick her perfect 10 bar routine. Moroney came closer to perfection in that vault than anyone in recent history. I think she should've got a 10.

[Theatregirl1122]

Jake Dalton tweeted that he signed with KMM sports which means he's done with NCAA.

Sam's been talking about heading back to Michigan, so he's staying eligible as far as I can tell. I believe he's the only member of the 2012 USA men's team who is. (I believe Leyva and Orozco were already pro and JHort graduated in 2008)

[Louis]

This is the official FIG document on the reference judges.
http://figdocs.sportcentric.net/exte...?document=3135

Wow. I thought skating judging was f'ed up and overengineered. Has either sport ever thought about engaging a real statistician / mathematician? Seems doubtful.

Gymnastics judging makes skating look legit!

In real-time, I'd have given Maroney's vault a 9.9. There are a couple of tiny little nitpicks. On the other hand, compared to the other vault execution scores, she probably deserved a 10.3. I agree with Bela, best women's vault ever. It could take twenty years to see a 2.5TY performed better.

[Karpenko]

Nadia didn't stick her perfect 10 bar routine. Moroney came closer to perfection in that vault than anyone in recent history. I think she should've got a 10.

Yes! You summed it up in a much shorter way than I could have. Basically I agree there are small deductions there depending on how you look at it, but they are honestly hard to spot even in slow motion which is unbelievable.

Maybe a little less distance than she usually has, very slight piked body and very slight leg-separation on the pre-flight when she contacts the horse. Those judges did not deduct for a non-stuck landing, it were those other little things. It should have at the very least been a 9.8 from every judge IMO, but this was an opportunity for the judges to validate their new scoring system which nobody (myself included) completely understands and what made Nadia so great to her era - McKayla has that on vault. If it had scored a 10 I don't think anybody would have complained (unless maybe the Russians But Alexandrov is always praising her technique whenever she is brought up in interviews) Both of her vaults really, she has the best block and technique on this event in the sport to date IMO. If the judges had given it a ten it would've been such a great moment for gymnastics and I think could've given gymnastics the much needed jolt of life that it needs. In the end what killed its possibility is just how much lower other execution scores have been, so a huge barrier has been broken with 9.8 and 9.9 being given out at a very strict competition like the Olympics. But really in all honesty, relative to the field just as Nadia was, her score should have been a 10.

[Karpenko]

I just saw this posted on another board - Arabian triple front attempt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQZEV7tR-eg

Crazy! I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in the next few years. Also an arabian double front Yurchenko vault.

[Choupette]

Nadia didn't stick her perfect 10 bar routine. Moroney came closer to perfection in that vault than anyone in recent history. I think she should've got a 10.

True, nor did Mary Lou Retton's vault, wihich had more than a small hop. It didn't bother me when the judges were not as severe back then when they seemed to take the difficulty into account, but an error on the dismount is a little too visible to overlook IMO.

However, you wouldn't have found me whining if Maroney had gotten a 10 on that vault. I liked it very much as it was anyway, even if in my mind this is not quite a 10.

I found the Russian coach's comment interesting, when he said she should have done an easier 2nd vault (I assume he was thinking of the layout Podkopayeva).

[Rob]

I just saw this posted on another board - Arabian triple front attempt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQZEV7tR-eg

Crazy! I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in the next few years. Also an arabian double front Yurchenko vault.

Who is that?

[Karpenko]

No idea, but it looks like from the comments that it was done back in 1988. Some are saying it could possibly be Yuri Yermakov or Valeri Liukin. (I think maybe Dos Dantos could've done one in her prime!)

[Erin]

Maybe a little less distance than she usually has, very slight piked body and very slight leg-separation on the pre-flight when she contacts the horse.

I'm amazed that judges could see those things (aside from less distance) in real-time, however, and I thought they didn't have replay?

I will say that as much as I would love to have seen McKayla's vault get a 10, I will take the more severe scoring these days over the days when judges didn't consistently deduct for obvious errors. I watched the 1991 Worlds AA this week as I converted it on to DVD and so many gymnasts were scoring 9.9+ (and even high 9.9s) for routines that had obvious mistakes, which means that judges were giving 10s for routines with wobbles, errors, etc. It makes the winner feel so random. I think that one of the biggest judging errors at that Worlds was Cristina Bontas's second vault receiving a 9.887 in spite of absolutely horrendous form (legs apart and bent on the horse, landing with legs apart, etc.)

The other thing that was brought home by that Worlds is the benefit of having the D-score. Betty Okino had a much simpler floor routine than Bontas, Zmeskal, and even Boguinskaya, but still scored a 9.912 and had a similar lack of difficulty on bars. I was kind of amused that even the American commentators thought that she was getting too much credit for her simple bars dismount and flat-out admitted that the Americans politicked to get the dismount difficulty rating raised.

[4rkidz]

The Olympics are over!

What the hell do we do now?!

if you are feeling flushed you could do this http://www.charitybuzz.com/categorie...g_items/320204

Peng Peng Lee just had her ACL surgery today per Twitter. Best of luck in her recovery!

I hope she fully recovers and can return to competition.. she was a great leader for the Canadians even though she wasn't competing

[danafan]

Lee is going to compete NCAA for UCLA. Based on her twitter feed I think it's very likely she will go for 2106. She's retweetd several mentions about Rio. And if any NCAA program would support this, historically it's UCLA.

[mkats]

Anna Li tweeted a picture of some of the elite team. Great to see Rebecca Bross looking so happy.

[Rob]

It is. I hope she makes it back to Worlds. Anna Li looks great!