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  1. #621

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    It is not at all impossible to enforce on certain countries like the United States where clear and concise birth records are kept and always available. The FIG can not force countries to keep birth records, of course, but if countries are able to take advantage of it then the rule needs to be amended or done away with. I say do away with it, always have, but that doesn't look to ever happen.

    I wish it were possible to force the athletes to compete in sanctioned events from a young age so as to start a paper trail (for example, you must move up through the ranks, you must compete junior before senior). This would stop countries from suddenly having Elite level phenoms who never competed a day in their lives until they show up at Worlds/Olympics. Well, they competed, but only internally in China (or wherever they are from) and never in any event that FIG had any say over. There would be problems with this, of course, what about late blooming gymnasts who suddenly come into their own at age 17, 18 or older but were never chosen for their countries Jr. teams?

    The countries could still cheat and falsify ages of gymnasts at their first junior meet, however, it would be a lot harder to do that. The countries would have to start falsifying ages farther in advance and doing so would be quite risky when you don't yet know which one will even make it to the senior level. As it is now, they only falsify the ages of gymnasts who are ready to compete Senior NOW.
    Last edited by BigB08822; 06-24-2013 at 09:55 PM.
    -Brian
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  2. #622

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    I also think it is interesting that Shang is being passed off as 17. Why make her 17? Maybe because last year was the Olympics and she may have been needed so they falsified her age before London to use her if it came to that. It makes it even more obvious that she isn't as old as they say.
    -Brian
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  3. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Has anyone seen the new gymnast from China...Shang? She is supposedly 17. That girl is 14, TOPS. Probably more like 12 or 13. It isn't even close to 17.
    I've just looked her up; her beam work is gorgeous. And how much do you want to bet that she'll look practically the same 10 years from now? What was the age limit at the Beijing Olympics? 16? Koko Tsurumi of Japan was just as small as Shang then and had a physique that was completely 'untouched' by puberty. I remember people crowing about how young Deng Linlin looked in 2008; I really do not see much difference in how she looks like now.

    And it's strange that you picked the example of Shang, who has a rather old-looking face and who I'd bet would look much different out of the little girl get-ups of gymnastics. Just because you are used to seeing the comparatively much bigger American gymnasts and Western girls who sprout breasts at 13 or 14 or goodness knows how much younger doesn't mean that standard is applicable to the rest of the world. I have known adult women of East Asian descent who have the bodies of young boys; it isn't just that they're completely boobless, but they're practically without hips and just very small-sized all around with hardly any curves.

  4. #624

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    Gymnastics News No.12 Part Deux!

    Well we can agree to disagree but China is known for cheating and I say where there is smoke there is fire. Even in the smallest of gymnasts I can tell a noticeable difference in their bodies. They can stay as small as can be but their bodies still change. It is a fact of life. It isn't just about boobs, either. No one escapes puberty (except for Chinese gymnasts who find miraculous ways of delaying it until they are 18).
    -Brian
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  5. #625
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    Kyla Ross new floor routine:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XN3ioyAlLEk

    Such a huge improvement. Still nothing ground-breaking, but I find this routine to actually be watchable, potential to be rather pretty, and much more "Kyla" than her old mess. I like it.

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Well we can agree to disagree but China is known for cheating and I say where there is smoke there is fire. Even in the smallest of gymnasts I can tell a noticeable difference in their bodies. They can stay as small as can be but their bodies still change. It is a fact of life. It isn't just about boobs, either. No one escapes puberty (except for Chinese gymnasts who find miraculous ways of delaying it until they are 18).
    Well, I won't even get into the whole Beijing debacle; some say that they cheated, others that they didn't.

    But I think it's just silly to accuse a gymnast of being underaged without any factual evidence to back it up. IMO, it undermines an appreciation of their gym and smacks of sour grapes and ignorance because, yes, there are 17-year-old girls of East Asian descent who can look like Shang and Koko Tsurumi. And the whole, oh, they've cheated before so they might be doing it again just doesn't fly - some Romanian gymnasts of yore have been proven to have cheated in regards to their ages; does that mean we should treat all of their future gymnasts with suspicion? (And yes, I've seen 16 to 17-year-old Romanian gymnasts who look like they haven't undergone puberty; not all of them look like Ponor at the same age).

  7. #627

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    I have absolutely no reason to have any sour grapes regarding Shang. As matter of fact, at her most recent competition I think she was robbed of the gold on balance beam. She is brand new to me so why be sour about anything? Other than this one competition, I don't know of a single result of hers. We haven't known of Romania to falsify anyones age since 1996. At least, not to my knowledge. They could be doing it but I haven't seen anyone who makes me question. I can only go by what I see, obviously. That isn't a bad thing, to use what you see. China has been doing it much more recently (they did cheat in Beijing, the evidence is overwhelming) and looking at Shang I say they still are. I honestly don't think you get what I am saying about their bodies. Comparing them to Ponor is a joke. She is a WOMAN. Not a small gymnast. You can show me a very tiny tiny gymnast (aged 17) and then show me Shang and Shang does not look the same. Her body has not changed AT ALL from that of a 9 year old. That is not normal for someone of 17. I think you are just looking for boobs and hips. That's not the only thing that changes (size of head comparable to body, size of feet, proportions, etc). Google it.
    -Brian
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  8. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I have absolutely no reason to have any sour grapes regarding Shang. As matter of fact, at her most recent competition I think she was robbed of the gold on balance beam. She is brand new to me so why be sour about anything? Other than this one competition, I don't know of a single result of hers. We haven't known of Romania to falsify anyones age since 1996. At least, not to my knowledge. They could be doing it but I haven't seen anyone who makes me question. I can only go by what I see, obviously. That isn't a bad thing, to use what you see. China has been doing it much more recently (they did cheat in Beijing, the evidence is overwhelming) and looking at Shang I say they still are. I honestly don't think you get what I am saying about their bodies. Comparing them to Ponor is a joke. She is a WOMAN. Not a small gymnast. You can show me a very tiny tiny gymnast (aged 17) and then show me Shang and Shang does not look the same. Her body has not changed AT ALL from that of a 9 year old. That is not normal for someone of 17. I think you are just looking for boobs and hips. That's not the only thing that changes (size of head comparable to body, size of feet, proportions, etc). Google it.
    For goodness' sake, I'm not comparing them to an adult Ponor - I'm saying that I have seen 16 to 17-year-old Romanian gymnasts who look like they haven't undergone puberty, but Ponor obviously didn't look like that at the same age and that's kind of my point: you can't generalize so sweepingly and speak in such absolutes. There are East Asian girls who can look like Shang at 17, and I have already given you examples that prove my point. I just went back and had a look at Deng Linlin's beam at the 2012 London Games and I cannot see any difference in her body compared to her 2008 one aside for some slight boobage which can easily develop after the ages of 16 to 17, especially for Asians.

    I'm also not stupid enough that I'd only be looking at boobs and hips when evaluating the maturity of the female body. You cannot conceive of a 17-year-old female having a body like Shang's because in your world that just isn't possible. Well, guess what, the human body develops very individualistically and the variance becomes even greater when taking into account factors like genes, race, nutrition, etc.

    And don't take it that I'm saying that the Chinese have never cheated - Dong Fangxiao provides clear evidence that they have. But I'm not going to slander someone like Shang (slander is perhaps a harsh word to use but you are, in effect, calling her a cheater) until some harder evidence (besides just, oh, she can't look like that at that age, she just can't!) comes up that causes me to question her true age. If you want to do so because of such subjective reasons, you go right on ahead.

  9. #629

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    Gymnastics News No.12 Part Deux!

    Shang isn't even at fault! China cheats, not gymnasts. I never blamed her or any of the others. Cheng Fei is one of my favorites but she was underage at one point, as well.
    -Brian
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  10. #630

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    I hate how this quad's code just encourages all those stupid leaps and isolated dance elements. I guess Floor has been looking this way for too long to wish it would revert back to what it was in the past because the ruination of floor has been going on for over a decade now.

  11. #631
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    Kyla's routine looks better, but there is still a lot of headthrowing. I also dislike the isolated dance elements and posing.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    Shang isn't even at fault! China cheats, not gymnasts. I never blamed her or any of the others. Cheng Fei is one of my favorites but she was underage at one point, as well.
    All of us where underage at some point, I hope you were not born big.

  13. #633

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    All of us where underage at some point, I hope you were not born big.
    I meant she competed underage at one point. They lied about her age, she is not as old as they say. She was underage in Athens.
    -Brian
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  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Tweeted by @GymCoaching: Deng Linlin, He Kexin, Zou Kai, Chen Yibing, Xiao Qin to retire http://wogymnastike.blogspot.ca/2013...l-it-quit.html
    Awww Kai. The others I expected but I was hoping he would stay around to captain the team.

  15. #635
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  16. #636
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    Omfg. That is way too hard to be possible.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UrhK_Tas8W0

    I liked last years better and those leaps need to be brought back up to snuff, and the choreography really could be more detailed, but I like it. She has the 'tude like Produnova did with this music.

  17. #637
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    I hope Kyla wins the bar and AA golds at Worlds. She is such a beautiful gymnast. Maybe a beam medal too.

  18. #638

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    How is Kyla winning bars at Worlds? I've seen this a few times. She is expected to beat Komova and Mustafina, among others? She would be doing really well to medal. She didn't even make EF at the Olympics, I don't expect her to win the World title in her next major competition.
    -Brian
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    With her upgrades, I think Kyla could medal on bars. On a good day she could win.

    I wouldn't use the fact Kyla didn't make EF at the Olympics as a strike against her now. She was a reserve and missed it by less than .2 . She's also upgraded and other gymnasts who made it may not be competing or aren't at their best.

    Komova hasn't competed so far this year so it's unclear where she's at with her training.

  20. #640
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    Ross has made one upgrade on bars, that simply maintains her old D score (the connection value on bars has changed so most 2012 code routines have lower D scores this year).

    It's way too early to declare anyone the favourite for bars gold this year. Komova hasn't even competed yet and Mistafina hasn't done her full difficulty yet. And depending on who China sends to worlds they have some major potential as well.

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