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  1. #221
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    The Rodionenkos should move to Antartica never to be seen again and ruin an igloo team instead.

    Ukraine would be a team that could really use a great coach like Alexandrov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choupette View Post
    No, I don't recall that... I've never liked Podkopayeva's dance on FX that much, although it was more because of the choreography than because of the way she moved. I find Karpenko's FXs superior.
    I remember one big criticism was her lack of facial expression and how she just went through the motions. Guess they didn't expect what was coming for women's FX later to happen.

    I still look at Lilia as the prima ballerina example of how a gymnast has everything on floor that I look for, but ITA about preferring Karpenko's routines. If Lilia had more detailed choreo I think more people would've "got" her special quality on floor. She had everything IMO, in spite of some very cheesy choreography (I liked the 96 one though, very cute)

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    I feel the opposite. Karpenko was a great tumbler and very good dancer but her floor routines were boring with heavy music and no facial expression. I remember Carol Orchard on TV saying she needed some more of what Produnova had on floor, and I fully agree, her exact words: "compare this to Karpenko, she too is an excellent tumbler, but she doesnt have the choreography or personality which capativate the audience or the judges for that matter, while Produnova really knows how to put on a show." As it was a low floor score for Karpenko helped lose her the World AA to Olaru this year. I much preferred Lilia's floor routines. All of them were very entertaining, even if some in a cheesy way, they still had cuteness and fun. Even her worst choreographed floor routine was still enjoyable and even the most cheesy parts like from 0:55 to 0:58 make you smile and are still done with her own style and panache:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATWVgMkFqc0

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    deleted message

  5. #225
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    It's kind of like arguing whether rubys or emeralds are prettier, compared to Ponor vs Raisman I'm not mad about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    It's kind of like arguing whether rubys or emeralds are prettier, compared to Ponor vs Raisman I'm not mad about it.
    Fair enough. I actually liked the floor routines of Ponor and Raisman more than basically either they ever did before though.

  7. #227
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    o.o Oh Russia. Why do you need to screw things up. Rodionenko really seem to be against Mustafina too. And the excuses they made were beyond the pale and not even credible.

    I don't have a good feeling about Russia. I just don't see the upcoming talent and the situation with coaches etc is very messy. Still looks hell of a lot better than Romania who have even fewer talent upcoming. China doesn't look the greatest either. Real lack of floor and vault workers. The US look to be in a strong position.

  8. #228

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    I hope this doesnt affect Musty too badly. she is in need of a coach like Alexandrow.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    Thanks! The decision just seems petty. Has the Russian (or previously Soviet) National coach never been a "personal" coach to any of the gymnasts before? Anyway, what a loss. What are the chances he'd stay on to coach Aliya (and others)?

  10. #230
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    I remember a fluff piece on Roza Galiyeva at the 1996 Olympics with her working one on one with Arkaev. I think he was her personal coach through 1992 at least, not sure he continued after he became head coach.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  11. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by elka_sk8 View Post
    Thanks! The decision just seems petty. Has the Russian (or previously Soviet) National coach never been a "personal" coach to any of the gymnasts before? Anyway, what a loss. What are the chances he'd stay on to coach Aliya (and others)?
    I think that after the horror that was Arkaev, the feeling was the head coach shouldn't be. I actually DO think they have a point about that being a conflict of interest.

    Arkaev use to make students drop their personal coaches and move to him, or he wouldn't give them spots and assignments... Because he'd get bonuses, the only people who were kept from this (for the most part) were Khorkina, Nemov, Pavs (and maybe one other person). This was after the Soviet days. It makes sense to say that the head coach should be neutral.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I think that after the horror that was Arkaev, the feeling was the head coach shouldn't be. I actually DO think they have a point about that being a conflict of interest.

    Arkaev use to make students drop their personal coaches and move to him, or he wouldn't give them spots and assignments... Because he'd get bonuses, the only people who were kept from this (for the most part) were Khorkina, Nemov, Pavs (and maybe one other person). This was after the Soviet days. It makes sense to say that the head coach should be neutral.
    But that was Arkaev. Alexandrov, to my knowledge has displayed no such conflict of interest in his dual role other than to (rightly IMO) criticise Grishina's Mother for interfering with her training and for her team distancing her from the national team. Considering what went down in London as far as Grishina is concerned he has a major point there.

    And all this guff from Valentina Rodionenko about neglecting Komova? Err, she has her own coach doesn't she? Is she trying to say that Komova's AA OSM was Alexandrov's fault? Her own coach should be the one to make sure she didn't just give up and half arse her amanar landing. That is the ONLY reason she didn't win the AA.

    I'm really worried about Aliya now. She needs Alexandrov - they are clearly a wonderful team but this is starting to look as though Alexandrov's role in Russian gymnastics at any level is becoming increasingly untenable and then what???? Sooooo mad at this!

  13. #233
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    Look, I don't know what was going on at Round Lake. All I can see is the results, and who was the most successful Russian gymnast (and most decorated AG gymnast overall) in London? Not Komova, not AFan, not Grishina. It was Mustafina. She was a rock for the team and picked up the only gold medal for Russia in gymnastics.

    So to fire the man who guided her to that success AND got the Russian women to their best results since Sydney....it's so dumb. Apparently no one in Russia is concerned about taking the success they had this quad and capitalizing on it for Rio so they can finally get that team OGM. They just want to play games.

    Honestly, I don't know what Aliya is going to do. I can't see Alexandrov staying and for her to have two coaches leave her under difficult circumstances throughout her career...I wouldn't blame her if she said enough was enough and didn't want to have anything to do with Russian gymnastics again. It would be a huge shame, though.

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    But that was Arkaev. Alexandrov, to my knowledge has displayed no such conflict of interest in his dual role other than to (rightly IMO) criticise Grishina's Mother for interfering with her training and for her team distancing her from the national team. Considering what went down in London as far as Grishina is concerned he has a major point there.

    And all this guff from Valentina Rodionenko about neglecting Komova? Err, she has her own coach doesn't she? Is she trying to say that Komova's AA OSM was Alexandrov's fault? Her own coach should be the one to make sure she didn't just give up and half arse her amanar landing. That is the ONLY reason she didn't win the AA.

    I'm really worried about Aliya now. She needs Alexandrov - they are clearly a wonderful team but this is starting to look as though Alexandrov's role in Russian gymnastics at any level is becoming increasingly untenable and then what???? Sooooo mad at this!
    Several girls are stating that Alexandrov favored Mustafina.. Several of the coaches have complained about Alexandrov having a personal student too. Alexandrov said in interview a long time ago that a lot of the coaches didn't like him taking on Mustafina. Afansyeva or someone said something about him taking only pictures with Aliya not the others.

    This being said Aliya didn't go last at prelims and Alexandrov rested Komova in Team Finals on floor... So some of it is a bit....

    I think there is two sides of every story and I do think there's merit in the Head Coach not having a personal student. Even if he was completely impartial even the impression of impartiality can be problematic.

    Some of the girls said their training all centered around Aliya.

    I do feel for Aliya though... I do think in terms of Komova blaming Alexandrov is unfair. At the end of the day these other coaches should not be saying bad things about Aliya who has done more for their country of any gymnast since Khorkina, and is the only gymnast (Including Khorkina) to lead them as Russia to a World Team Title.

  15. #235
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    From reading all interviews since the Olympics, I'm pretty sure the real reason Alexandrov was let go was because of how much he has spoken out about the Rodionenkos and personal coaches of some of the gymnasts and how they are prepared (especially Grishina). I mean the proof was in the entire Olympic competituon for them so it wasnt some personal vendetta on Alexandrovs part. He doesnt BS, thats why his gymnasts turn out with such strong focus and technique. He ended up being voted out of his position by the same people he spoke out against, Komovas coach Kolesnikova from what I read was in favor of him keeping his position but not sure of the others.

    It's amazing what an emotional mess the program is, and they really don't have the talent coming up that they had 4 years ago for Alexandrov to mold, so sadly I think they could very well end up like the Ukranian program within the next 10 years. such a waste of gorgeous gymnastics and timeless teachings.

  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post
    From reading all interviews since the Olympics, I'm pretty sure the real reason Alexandrov was let go was because of how much he has spoken out about the Rodionenkos and personal coaches of some of the gymnasts and how they are prepared (especially Grishina). I mean the proof was in the entire Olympic competituon for them so it wasnt some personal vendetta on Alexandrovs part. He doesnt BS, thats why his gymnasts turn out with such strong focus and technique. He ended up being voted out of his position by the same people he spoke out against, Komovas coach Kolesnikova from what I read was in favor of him keeping his position but not sure of the others.

    It's amazing what an emotional mess the program is, and they really don't have the talent coming up that they had 4 years ago for Alexandrov to mold, so sadly I think they could very well end up like the Ukranian program within the next 10 years. such a waste of gorgeous gymnastics and timeless teachings.
    Well absolutely. Look I think he should have been listened to more in somethings. Getting rid of Oleg, letting Grishina train on her own plan (apparently Grishina's left that coach)... However, one thing I will say is I agree having a personal student leads fuel to the fire.

    I say lets give the new head coach a chance. He's been Russia's bars coach for years, and so he's a very good coach in that thing, if he has a better relationship with the girls and agrees not to have a personal student he may be listened to more.

    I am ticked with the way Aliya's being talked about though. That's ridiculous.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karpenko View Post

    It's amazing what an emotional mess the program is, and they really don't have the talent coming up that they had 4 years ago for Alexandrov to mold, so sadly I think they could very well end up like the Ukranian program within the next 10 years. such a waste of gorgeous gymnastics and timeless teachings.
    I hope not - that would be so sad.. I have always loved the styling and the and of Russian gymnasts. Plus it was the Valentina and Olga in the early days that got me so interested in gymnastics in the first place..

    Even this Olympics.. we would be waiting for the of the Russian women and their reactions - the tears, the looks..
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

    "Love is better than Anger, Hope is better than fear" Jack Layton 1950-2011

  18. #238
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    Siiiiiigh.

  19. #239
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    Ugh. So disappointing.

  20. #240
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    I wish Khorkina could run the program. The gymnasts might end up crying more, but that would be magical.

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