Gymnastics apparatus finals - Part 2

[loulou]

(Although if high jump and other sports can have ties, why can't artistic gymnastics?)

I'm not sure, this might have been mentioned before and maybe you all know it: artistic gymnastic does allow tie breaks, just not at the olympics.

At the 2007 world championships, the AA podium was: 1) Johnson USA, 2) Nistor ROU, 3) Barbosa BRA + Ferrari ITA - and they gave two bronze medals and a total of four medals.

During the smae event, at beam finals, the podium was: 1) Liukin USA, 2) Nistor ROU (a performance you don't go back to watch ever) + Li Shanshan CHI (who fell, but aside from that did the best beam you could imagine).

[Scintillation]

Have anyone read this yet?

It's seem that Hak Seon come from poor background and with this gold it help his family improve their financial situation. I admire how he has fight to come to this point so much. Truely deserve champion!

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/09/wo...ast/index.html

Amazing story and a well deserved title. That guy is just incredible.

[BigB08822]

I recommended in another thread that ties should be broken, at least in the AA, by adding back in ALL judges scores. This includes the highs and lows. This still takes into account all events but instead of decreasing your sample size you actually increase it by adding back in those scores. This tells us who ALL judges COMBINED thought was better on the night. If a tie still stands then it should really stay, IMO.

I love the new vaulting rules. I can't remember if this is how it works but I have been wanting this to happen for a long time:

You take the gymnasts 2 vaults and add up their D scores. Then you average it out. So let's say a gymnast does a 6.5 vault and a 6.0 vault. The gymnasts D score will be 6.250 Then you take deductions and deduct from the possible total of 16.250 So if a gymnast fell it is a full point off. The way it works now, a fall on one vault only takes off .500 because it is averaged. All errors are fully deducted. If judges began doing their job then we would truly see execution rewarded over the span of 2 vaults where averaging isn't coming into play. It also will mean much lower scores but it would only happen in vault finals anyway.

[mazzy]

BigB08822,
I'd prefer them to double the penalties for vault. This would obviously result in the same scores for specialists as the rule change proposed, but I really believe that badly done vaults need to be punished more heavily in TF/AA, as well.

Of course, ideally two vaults should be required for TF/AA.

[BigB08822]

I don't mind them requiring 2 vaults in the AA but I do think they should be allowed to do them from the same family. Even if it has to be a different vault, so someone could do a 2 1/2 and 2 Yurchenko. Otherwise I don't like scoring the 2 vaults in the AA like they will in EF because it will REALLY hurt vaulters in the AA. Those scores will be so much lower.

[Erin]

I don't mind them requiring 2 vaults in the AA but I do think they should be allowed to do them from the same family.

This used to be the rule in the AA - it was during the 1997-2000 quad (1993-96 was averaging 2 vaults in AA but it could be the exact same vault), then they dropped it down to one vault in 2001. I miss having two vaults...I would actually love it if the rule for TF and AA was two different vaults, can be from the same family, average the D-scores and take the total deductions from two vaults off the E-score.

[BigB08822]

I just don't like the idea of vault scores plummeting. As it is gymnasts can only score high 15s on bars and vault. Take that away from vault and now you have strong bar workers dominating the AA. Scores will never be even across the board but at least there are 2 events right now where a gymnast can score high. I don't like the idea of someone winning all the AAs because they happen to excel on bars and this is what will happen at first. In a few years you can say "well, gymnasts should work harder on bars" but it isn't fair at first.

[skatesindreams]

Have anyone read this yet?

It's seem that Hak Seon come from poor background and with this gold it help his family improve their financial situation. I admire how he has fight to come to this point so much. Truely deserve champion!

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/09/wo...ast/index.html

I was just about to post this.
An amazing story indeed.
I hope that his future is secured.

[mazzy]

I just don't like the idea of vault scores plummeting. As it is gymnasts can only score high 15s on bars and vault. Take that away from vault and now you have strong bar workers dominating the AA. Scores will never be even across the board but at least there are 2 events right now where a gymnast can score high. I don't like the idea of someone winning all the AAs because they happen to excel on bars and this is what will happen at first. In a few years you can say "well, gymnasts should work harder on bars" but it isn't fair at first.

You should not look at absolute scores, but at score differentials instead, because they matter. These would clearly increase with two vaults from different families. Just look how close everyone with an amanar has been scored to Maroney in TF. With two vaults and higher deductions she could actually lever her superiority because inferior vaulters will have a harder time getting a 6.2 second vault and doing it decently.

[mkats]

From the Yang story:

Nongshim, the manufacturer of Yang's favorite instant noodles, has also said it will provide his family with "limitless amount of instant noodles," according to a press statement.

And then in the comments:

free noodles!? thats it!? come on nongshim shin ramen. u can do better than that! at least give him free eggs too to put in his noodles lol

[kwanfan1818]

I think that should be televised.

That would be like the Player's Box in tennis.

Not ideal though but the IOC/FIG don't want tie breaks.

Actually, someone does want tie breaks: they don't seem to want ties. However, the IOC so far is fine with two bronzes for each Women's Boxing, Judo, and Wrestling class, two bronzes in High Bar and Men's Keirin. It's possible they don't want ties in judged sports, although, arguable, Judo, for example, is a judged sport, since points and penalties are rewarded only when an official recognizes specific behaviors, and if there's a tie after the regular bout and a single sudden death, three judges/referees vote simultaneously, and the majority takes all.

It always amazes me how I've been seeing different competitions by watching CTV/TSN/SportsNet than people who are watching only NBC. (Same was true of the SLC Olympics, since I didn't see any of the US coverage, only CBC.)

Many thanks to everyone here who posted descriptions of the routines -- now I'm off to chip away at the 40+ hours of taped coverage on my PVR.

[Ziggy]

I'm just catching up on all those now:

Men's Floor Final

This sucked.

Zou Kai might be in teknik but his performance couldn't have been more dry. It was like watching Min Zhang skate.

Out of the two, I'd prefer to see Kōhei Uchimura on top. Well, he did get the highest E score at least.

I was really bummed about Tomás González being off the podium. Yes, the difficulty was clearly lacking but he was the only gymnast in the final to actually *perform* his routine, show some character and present and sell it well (also, his 80s gay porn moustache rocked ) If it was skating, he'd medal thanks to the PCS. This is why skating > gymnastics.

Women's Vault Final

I am beyond thrilled for Sandra Izbașa. She's such a stunning gymnast. Two solid, nicely executed vaults and very well deserved gold medal.

Maroney and Paseka are theoretically better vaulters but they just didn't manage to deal with the pressure on the day.

Shame that Chusovitina didn't manage to end her incredible career with a medal but both her and Berger can be pretty proud of themselves. They did a decent job.

at Pena Abreu for even trying that first vault. But she didn't seem to be strong enough mentally. She seemed very nervous and it looked like it wasn't going to happen when that failed start happened. Probably best not to appear content this difficult unless you are really confident that you can deliver.

Men's Pommel Horse

Great event. Fortunately not the usual splatfest and just one falling off.

Berki is just inhuman. The power, the speed, the absolutely perfect lines were just second to none. He definitely deserved the gold.

Smith had the difficulty but not Berki's quality.

Whitlock 'did a Sarah Meier'. Came out of nowhere to deliver a fantastic performance. A real upset. He was incredibly fast.

Bummed for Busnari. He did really well and this kind of performance would medal at most times but the level at the top was just really high.

Men's Rings

Zanetti!

His strength, his lines, the steadiness in all his positions is just . I jumped in my chair.

Yibing did very well and had a lovely dismount but Zanetti was just extra special.

Nice for Morandi to finally get an Olympic medal. Solid routine.

Really bummed for Yovchev who was doing quite well until that dismount. So inspiring to see him performing in his 6th Olympics. What a silver fox too!

Same for Molinari. Maybe that dismount was a little too ambitious but well done until that point.

about Balandin looking as grumpy as Maroney on the podium throughout.

Women's Uneven Bars next ( to the IOC for putting full events in HD on YouTube ). But maybe I'll actually get some shit done first.

[Ziggy]

Women's Uneven Bars

So much excitement and tension until the very end!

Musty FINALLY delivered! Allelujah! Very elegant, very strong.

He Kexin - Well I am firmly in the ABC camp as far as gymnastics goes. Slightly messy releases at the start and it all looked a little laboured.

Beth Tweddle... She was fantastic right up to the dismount. So much speed and power. If only she hasn't messed it up, she'd have silver at least.

Yao Jinnan did really well but her lines could be much better.

Komova. Such a silly mistake to make. Silver could have been hers.

Seitz and Tsurumi both did well for their ability.

As for Gabby Douglas, she was incredibly rock solid in both the team and the aa finals. Here she proved that she is only human after all.

Men's Vault

Yang is just in a different league to everybody else. Hats off.

Huge respect to Ablyazin given it was his third final and a second medal. Such a strong all-round gymnast. He's rather porny too. ^^

Radivilov was really strong, I thought he'd manage silver, it was really close though.

Gonzalez 4th again.

Mikulak and Perez did well too.

Koczi sulking as he was after his floor routine.

Thomas' body type is rather... unusual. Gigantic torso and rather tiny legs by comparison.

Men's Parallel Bars

Feng Zhe's technical difficulty was insane, but again: the lines and extensions were meh.

Marcel Nguyen didn't have the same difficulty but his movement was fast and fluid and his extension near perfect. I'm definitely a quality over difficulty man and I'd rather see him first.

Finally a medal for Sabot, he was so happy. Did a really decent job. :]

Not a good day for the Tanaka brothers. They could easily medal based on the execution but too many mistakes on this day.

I am surprised at how low Garibov scored. I noticed him moving forward a little at one point and he had a tiny step on the landing but otherwise, his routine seemed really well executed.

Women's Balance Beam

What a hot mess!

I am very happy that it's Deng Linlin that has come on top. Both her and Sui Lu were very strong technically but Deng was much more graceful and extended her movements better.

Other than for one very apparent balance check, Raisman seemed rock solid (well there was also that hop on the dismount landing) but I had an issue about her connections. She was quite slow moving from one move to the next.

Ponor.
I wanted her to win so freakin' much. She is the beam queen. Incredibly graceful and connecting her movements like nobody else does. But with so many mistakes... Especially crushing to first get a medal awarded and then lose it.

Mama Afanas seemed tentative this day and without that much difficulty, it just wasn't enough.

Iordache seemed like she accepted defeat right from the start. That girl needs some confidence.

Douglas a total mess again! Maybe she's just tired given how much she's competed?

Komova. Somebody get her a sport psychologist asap. That girl is one of the best gymnasts in the world... when she holds it together. Which isn't very often.

Men's Horizontal Bar

Wow, in contrast with the beam this was an absolutely incredible event. The level was extremely high.

Epke Zonderland was just insane. Those three releases in a row... Incredible combinations and a perfect dismount.

Fabian Hambuchen was incredible as well. So much speed and power, huge height on all his releases.

Zou Kai's execution was really messy and I'd much rather see Zhang Chenglong on the podium. :/

Good job from Leyva and Horton too. They did well, the level was just so high that it wasn't enough.

Best final by a mile!

Women's Floor

Another super exciting event!

Raisman had zero grace and moved like a lumbering oaf. But you couldn't fault her tumbling. It was second to none. Incredible difficulty and perfect, rock solid landings.

Ponor was the opposite. Whilst her routine was nowhere near as difficult, she moved beautifully. Very graceful, really felt the music and expressed its character. Near perfect on the tumbles as well. Coming from a figure skating mindset, this was the routine, I valued much more. Great to see her get silver after the disappointment on the beam.

Mustafina did well but her routine left me somewhat cold. She's graceful but the music didn't seem to bother her much.

Bummed for Ferrari. She's a bit rough but really powerful, great height on the tumbling and I really wanted to see her on the podium.

Mitchell's landings were all a little off. Injury I guess.

Afanaseva was very graceful but lots of small errors. Same for Wieber. Only she wasn't graceful and everything between the tumbling was .

Izbașa... :
I am in million depressions. I really really wanted her to win this. She got the Vault gold medal because Maroney and Paseka failed to deliver. Floor was the event where Izbașa could have won if she delivered a perfect performance. Well on this particular day, Raisman could have been out of reach. But up to that last tumble, it looked like Izbașa would take the silver at least. Such a costly error.

[IoanaC]

Izbașa... :
I am in million depressions. I really really wanted her to win this. She got the Vault gold medal because Maroney and Paseka failed to deliver. Floor was the event where Izbașa could have won if she delivered a perfect performance. Well on this particular day, Raisman could have been out of reach. But up to that last tumble, it looked like Izbașa would take the silver at least. Such a costly error.

Ziggy, it's true that Maroney's mistake brought Sandra her gold, that medal was Maroney's to lose from the get go. However, Sandra was the favourite for the silver in everyone's predictions. Paseka wasn't in the cards for more than a bronze (because of her iffy Amanar and her weak second vault), and IMO she shouldn't have medaled at all. That Amanar was hardly rotated. I would have given the bronze to Berger.