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  1. #821

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    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    So am I right in saying Deng is supposed to be 19 since she was old enough in Beijing???

    To me, Beijing is not the issue....is she old enough for London? My husband thought she looked 12 or 13.

    Quote Originally Posted by poths View Post
    That is utter bull shit for those bent legs in the twists. Utter BULLSHIT!!!

    Mustafina should not medal!
    I agree, & IMO she should not have medaled in the AA either. I don't care if Aly looks like a bull in a china shop. She got it done. Mustafina didn't IMO. She was breathtaking in the UB finals...I finally saw what all the hype was about. But I thought she was really messy & was kind of a headcase in the AA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedwig View Post
    That is a very condescending sentence.

    I will follow it with one of my own: Artistic is not only a floor exercise and the choreography. Artistic happens on every apparatus and is the body carriage, the extension and the love for details.
    There is a lot wrong with gymnastics at the moment and I will never love it as much as gymnastics in the 80s but to watch the bars of Komova and Mustafina and tell me that is not artistic is, well...
    I didn't see anything condescending in mtnskater's post. She stated her opinion (I did not see one floor exercise here that was truly memorable in terms of artistic impression), just as you are doing. Besides, she was talking about FX, not UB.

    I agree that artistic is important. Yes, both Vika & Aliya have beautiful toe point & extension. But I don't think you look all that artistic with lots of bobbles & balance checks, not to mention falling off apparatus & big steps on dismounts. Should artistic be more respected than actually landing everything in your program?

    I am a big fan of artistic in both gymnastics & figure skating. But I think it's wrong to sneer at the non-artistic athletes...they also bring something to the table - lots of difficulty & clean (or mostly clean) routines.

  2. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Accept ANY kind of sponsorship. Even if they aren't doing MAJOR commercial campaigns, just something like being sponsored by a leotard brand and being in their limited advertising. Disson does a skating/gymnastics spectacular every year- an NCAA gymnast can't do that.

    There isn't a lot of equipment in gymnastics, so it isn't really an apt comparison, but almost every elite skater is sponsored by some boot/blade company. They may be largely sponsored and get paid, or they may just get free boots- a gymnast who wanted to go NCAA couldn't do that.
    thank you for explaining.

    sounds like a tough decision for anybody who might want a college scholarship later. although isn't college tuition each year less expensive than hiring geddert / chow/ jenny (kyla's coach) for a year?

  3. #823

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    It's possible things changed in the meantime, but last I checked Gazeta Sporturilor is a fairly well-known sports newspaper. Not exactly Libertatea or complete tabloid fodder. And, Ponor didn't exactly retract what she said. Just that she wished the whole interview would have been published since she did mention her coaches supported her through the years. Doesn't mean they somehow didn't forget to congratulate her on her silver, even if they did tell her 'good job' after her routine.
    Actually, Catalina did retract her statement, during the press conference today. She apologized to the coaches about what she said in the heat of the moment, when she was upset because of how things had turned out yesterday. She also said that they did congratulate her afterwards and she thanked them in return for their help.
    About GSP, I'm afraid it is turning into a sort of Libertatea. Speculating unfounded rumours, taking statements out of context, always looking for sensationalism... anything to get views on their website.

  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    To me, Beijing is not the issue....is she old enough for London? My husband thought she looked 12 or 13.
    Almost all the gymnasts look young, I've never seen one that looks old for the listed age. And some people just look young: I'm 30 and when I skate parents are regularly suprised I am old enough to drive. I recently got asked if I just got my permit- which kids in this state get at 14!)

    There was no way she was 6 or 7 in Beijing, so she definitely isn't 12 or 13 now. I thought she looked clearly over 16, I would have guessed at that or 17. I really would be shocked if she wasn't underage in Beijing though.

    sounds like a tough decision for anybody who might want a college scholarship later. although isn't college tuition each year less expensive than hiring geddert / chow/ jenny (kyla's coach) for a year?
    For some of them it might not just be the scholarship but the experience. That seems to be why Missy Franklin wants to swim NCAA. But depending on where you go, the scholarship could be worth 40k+ a year. I think you just have to weigh if the sponsorship money is worth more than the value of the scholarship/competition opportunity.

    I've always wondered how much elites pay their coaches. Do they really pay standard by the hour lesson rate? Is there a flat rate for the training? Once they've reached this stage, it seems like they've earned their keep just through the business they bring into the gym. There was a feature on Chow's gym on the local news and they said they've had calls from all over the world to get students into the gym- including a 6 year old from Brazil!
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 08-08-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #825

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I agree, & IMO she should not have medaled in the AA either. I don't care if Aly looks like a bull in a china shop. She got it done.
    Me thinks someone is forgetting about Raisman's major issues on the balance beam and her really bad bar set.

  6. #826

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Almost all the gymnasts look young, I've never seen one that looks old for the listed age. And some people just look young: I'm 30 and when I skate parents are regularly suprised I am old enough to drive. I recently got asked if I just got my permit- which kids in this state get at 14!)

    There was no way she was 6 or 7 in Beijing, so she definitely isn't 12 or 13 now. I thought she looked clearly over 16, I would have guessed at that or 17. I really would be shocked if she wasn't underage in Beijing though.
    i saw a clip of Hisham el guerrouj, double olympic champion. they say he is 38, I thought he looked like 23, 24. Some people look young, its not their fault, however some look older than there age .

  7. #827

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I agree, & IMO she should not have medaled in the AA either. I don't care if Aly looks like a bull in a china shop. She got it done. Mustafina didn't IMO. She was breathtaking in the UB finals...
    Aly didn't get it done. First of all Raisman is terrible on uneven bars. Her 14.3 was frankly generous there according to Tim Daggott. Just like the Romanians hand over points to the Russians about 2 points every time. Raisman hands over those points to Aliya ever time. Its not like it was just a matter of difficulty that Aliya had and Raisman didn't its a matter of execution 14.3 is a very low score on bars...

    Then Aly had her own issues on beam, where she touched the apparatus incurring her own .5 tenths deduction....Considering she's a 3 event gymnast she needed to be perfect on beam to medal over a 4 event gymnast. In the end Aliya hit 3 events, Raisman only 2.

  8. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimena View Post
    Me thinks someone is forgetting about Raisman's major issues on the balance beam and her really bad bar set.
    One of my cousins lives in MA, Nahant, which is on the other side of Boston from Needham, and she was wuz-robbing "the local girl" on Facebook. She quieted down really fast when I reminded her about Aly's really bad form on bars. Even the pictures in the newspaper this morning, showed her in mid-twist and... those feet!

  9. #829

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Aly didn't get it done. First of all Raisman is terrible on uneven bars. Her 14.3 was frankly generous there according to Tim Daggott. Just like the Romanians hand over points to the Russians about 2 points every time. Raisman hands over those points to Aliya ever time. Its not like it was just a matter of difficulty that Aliya had and Raisman didn't its a matter of execution 14.3 is a very low score on bars...

    Then Aly had her own issues on beam, where she touched the apparatus incurring her own .5 tenths deduction....Considering she's a 3 event gymnast she needed to be perfect on beam to medal over a 4 event gymnast. In the end Aliya hit 3 events, Raisman only 2.
    I think you're forgetting Aliya fell off the beam & had that thrown out. The way they broke the tie is why I think Aly should have won AA bronze. If some of her other scores were generous, she wasn't the only one who benefitted from generosity and/or reputation.

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    I think you're forgetting Aliya fell off the beam & had that thrown out. The way they broke the tie is why I think Aly should have won AA bronze. If some of her other scores were generous, she wasn't the only one who benefitted from generosity and/or reputation.
    The tie break is so unfair. I haven't come up with a reasonable tie break yet that gives it to Aliya... what about just comparing total D score? Who would get that one? That's the tie break for event finals. I think it has awful implications towards execution, but it is a lot more fair than dropping the lowest event.

    Aliya had a score dropped when she finished 18th on the apparatus. Aly when she finished 10th. It doesn't become about all around then, it becomes about specializing - having a few very strong events, rather than all the events strong.
    The one who did better on their worst event suffers- that isn't being an "all arounder". It would make a lot more sense to look at the score of the lowest event. The person who is better at the thing they are worst at is a better all-arounder to me. (but of course, scores aren't comparable across apparatus, so that idea is out. Though in this case, both were worst at beam, but Aly was better at it, so it would go to Aly.)

    Why not compare their relative placements on each apparatus? The person with more higher placement wins. (Though this may not break the tie since there are 4 of them...) For Aly/Aliya: Aly placed higher on vault, beam and floor, Aliya on bars. That tells me Aly is a better "all arounder".

    Or you could add total placement on each event, and the lowest number wins the tie break.
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 08-08-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  11. #831
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    @ people thinking DLL is literally 12. Amazing.

    Also, Raisman didn't "get it done" in the AA. Both she and Aliya had mistakes. Raisman put her hands on the beam - isn't that a "technical fall" Also... her bars.... How that outscored Deng Linlin is a mystery.

    Aliya obviously had the fall and the lower SV on vault, but her beam is still good aside from the fall, and she bars in a different league. Hilarious twisting, but IMO she has a better floor as well but that's just me

    The bronze could have gone either way.

  12. #832

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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    . . . even after winning OGM on floor, aly still wants AA medals on the world level.
    But it really does not take away from the FX OGM. This is the first time an American won that medal at the Olympics, which is a big accomplishment because FX is really the iconic WAG event and normally highly competitive, even if the AA OGM is a bigger accomplishment.

  13. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    But it really does not take away from the FX OGM. This is the first time an American won that medal at the Olympics, which is a big accomplishment because FX is really the iconic WAG event, even if the AA OGM is a bigger accomplishment.

    hmm, interesting. i think on a gut level i agree with you re: FX being the iconic WAG event, because images of olga korbut dancing around and nadia being zen on FX just flooded my mind. for me the beam is the most interesting to watch.

    i am happy for aly. i just find it interesting, because so many skating people think OGM is everything, and yet, here in gymnastics, there are gymnasts who are already OGM who see other goals-not-yet accomplished. i presume AA champ uchimura feels the same about the team gold not accomplished. differently structured sports, each with its own interesting history

  14. #834
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    OK lol apparently Catalina Ponor and Tommy Ramos are getting engaged.

  15. #835

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazmeen View Post
    Please tell me someone had a camera on Aly's parents during this event, this should be RICH!!!!
    Crotchety Old Man to Aly's Parents...Sit Down

  16. #836
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    I think at this point Aly is more ok with her AA result than her fans are. I love Aly and am thrilled she got her own OGM but she did not deserve to medal in AA.

    That being said, they need to reconfigure those tiebreaks. They are absolutely ridiculous and make losing a medal that much worse.

  17. #837

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    Quote Originally Posted by gingercrush View Post
    OK lol apparently Catalina Ponor and Tommy Ramos are getting engaged.
    My first thought was that it had to be a joke. And then I checked our local newspaper and it seems to be true.

    Funny thing in the article, is that the writer doesn't really know who Ponor is.

    It's all about the local guy.

  18. #838

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    And you know, ties only result in more medals when it is for bronze. If it is a tie for gold then the silver is left vacant and you have 2 gold medalists and a bronze medalist. Right? It still results in 3 medals 2 out of 3 times.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  19. #839

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    The sport doesn't allow much for creative innovative routines its all about getting points. However, BOTH Komova and Mustafina have original skills named after them on bars.. Which is something that can be said for them. Mustafina was also the first gymnast to do the vault that Maroney fell on and Sandra won on, in major international competition.
    I know there basically isn't room for artistry with all the crazy tricks and difficulty required. So why tout any of these girls as great artists? Floor exercise is mostly stand in the corner, take a couple of deep breaths and run like hell to do some crazy difficult tumbling pass. Then we might see a scarce few dance elements in between. I sure wish the rules were changed so that a continuous dance movement that interpreted the music was required for floor ex...more in the vein of ice skating.

    I just watched a video of Olga Korbut someone had posted. She is the reason I became a gymnast as a kid. I still like her bar and beam routine better than anyone's today....same with early Nadia. The only memorable floor ex in recent years for me was the ballet focused routine by Lilia Podkopayeva. If people have others to post with great artistic impression, I'd love to see them. Maybe we need a thread just for that

  20. #840
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    ^Interestingly, when the BBC showed clips of Nadia and Olga the other day, my parents (not gym fans in any way) were far more impressed by those two than anything they saw in London...

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