Gymnastics apparatus finals - Part 2

[Jimena]

Maybe the judges aren't as partisan as you are or they don't have the same criteria.

Must you insult?

I'm merely stating why I don't think the two lines of thought are contradictory- a statement you're now ignoring.

FWIW, if they have to break ties because of IOC rules then I'm OK with the E score then D score rule.

[Allskate]

But the way they tiebreak AA score is nothing BUT random and just plain weird. The fact that not all four scores are considered when it comes to deciding an AA medal is just ???? and pretty wrong, IMHO.

ITA. I'm opposed to forcing tie-breakers in gymnastics. But, if they're going to do them, then be logical. IMO, the most logical first tie-break is the qualifying score. It's for the doing the AA. An AA tie-breaking method that rewards the person who shows the least consistency across the four events is dumb.

[bek]

ITA. I'm opposed to forcing tie-breakers in gymnastics. But, if they're going to do them, then be logical. IMO, the most logical first tie-break is the qualifying score. It's for the doing the AA. An AA tie-breaking method that rewards the person who shows the least consistency across the four events is dumb.

But one could argue that Mustafina DID show more consistency that night...She hit 3 events, Raisman only 2...

[pollyanna]

ITA. I'm opposed to forcing tie-breakers in gymnastics. But, if they're going to do them, then be logical. IMO, the most logical first tie-break is the qualifying score. It's for the doing the AA. An AA tie-breaking method that rewards the person who shows the least consistency across the four events is dumb.

ITA. AA means all four events. If you drop one, it isn't AA. So if you tie in AA finals, I think it makes perfect sense to go back to qualifying and add that in. And no, I'm not saying that because Aly scored higher than Aliya in QR. I prefer Aliya's overall gymnastics. But to me it makes more sense than dropping one entire event.

[beepbeep]

This could be a solution.

Or drop the lowest scoring apparatus and have them do it again

[Loves_Shizuka]

There's no way they'd count the QR score to decide tiebreakers. It's supposed to be 100% "new-life". They may come up with new solutions, but I highly doubt that'll be one of them.

[skfan]

That's how it is for individual scores, which I think is the right way to go. But the way they tiebreak AA score is nothing BUT random and just plain weird. The fact that not all four scores are considered when it comes to deciding an AA medal is just ???? and pretty wrong, IMHO.

perhaps their thinking goes like this: if adding up 4 doesn't give you a clear cut answer, the next best option is, who had the best 3 events (instead of who had the best 4 events).

i'm not saying their way is the correct way, that there should be no ties at all. i'm just saying i don't think their reasoning is completely nonsensical.

pollyanna, thank you for taking the time to compile those awesome FX vid links in the other thread.

anyway, i don't think there would be an abandoned baby in the lifetime movie (not abandoned in the trash can!). instead there might be an adopted gymnast whose biological mom comes forward after she wins a medal at the olys. she then says in interviews that finding her mom is better than any medal. shortly after she becomes a spokesperson for family values...

[Loves_Shizuka]

Do people know what pieces of music Afan used for her FX please?

[Erin]

There's no way they'd count the QR score to decide tiebreakers. It's supposed to be 100% "new-life". They may come up with new solutions, but I highly doubt that'll be one of them.

Actually, that was the original tiebreak rule at 1997 Worlds, but it proved rather unpopular, so they changed it. I think it's unlikely FIG would go back to it, but given that it's already been done, I wouldn't declare it an impossibility.

[judgejudy27]

But one could argue that Mustafina DID show more consistency that night...She hit 3 events, Raisman only 2...

Raisman hit 3 events. Her vault, bars, and floor were all hit sets. Her bars is really weak but it doesnt mean it wasnt a hit for her.

[justAfsfan]

Do people know what pieces of music Afan used for her FX please?

She use mixes of various music, I only know 2 of them.

One are from movie killbill and the main music is "Bajofondo - Grand Guignol "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOPVLcMAyMQ

[taf2002]

Must you insult?

I'm merely stating why I don't think the two lines of thought are contradictory- a statement you're now ignoring.

I don't think I was insulting. It's not unusual for people to be biased about a sport they care deeply about, esp if they have expectations about who will win. And I do think the way you composed your original post was contradictory.

FWIW, if they have to break ties because of IOC rules then I'm OK with the E score then D score rule.

But would you be OK with the D score, then the E score?

There's no way they'd count the QR score to decide tiebreakers. It's supposed to be 100% "new-life". They may come up with new solutions, but I highly doubt that'll be one of them.

I agree. Someone earlier suggested putting the dropped scores back in. That way they would only be using scores from the AA. (I'm not sure who gets the bronze under this method but it seems more fair to me.)

anyway, i don't think there would be an abandoned baby in the lifetime movie (not abandoned in the trash can!). instead there might be an adopted gymnast whose biological mom comes forward after she wins a medal at the olys. she then says in interviews that finding her mom is better than any medal. shortly after she becomes a spokesperson for family values...

[bek]

Raisman hit 3 events. Her vault, bars, and floor were all hit sets. Her bars is really weak but it doesnt mean it wasnt a hit for her.

Her bars were poorly done. Just because you are always going to be terrible, doesn't make it a hit routine.

[Jimena]

But would you be OK with the D score, then the E score?

I'd rather have the cleaner routine be rewarded, if they must have a tiebreak at all.

[chipso1]

Her bars were poorly done. Just because you are always going to be terrible, doesn't make it a hit routine.

That was a hit set for Aly, and one of her highest UB scores ever.

With your logic, Komova missed her Amanar in the AA because it was poorly done (and usually is these days).

[Skittl1321]

But one could argue that Mustafina DID show more consistency that night...She hit 3 events, Raisman only 2...

Raisman placed higher than Mustafina in 3 of the events. How does that mean Mustafina had more consistency? Raisman consistently outscored her... I think higher placements in more of the events that shows Raisman is a better all-arounder than Mustafina was that particular night.

[bek]

That was a hit set for Aly, and one of her highest UB scores ever.

With your logic, Komova missed her Amanar in the AA because it was poorly done (and usually is these days).

She did make a major error on her Amanar, I wouldn't call it a hit.

Raisman placed higher than Mustafina in 3 of the events. How does that mean Mustafina had more consistency? I think higher placements in more of the events that shows Raisman is a better all-arounder than Mustafina was that particular night.

You can't ignore one entire event. Neither Mustafina or Raisman hit their beams routines even though Aliya's was worse. Raisman is HORRIBLE on bars. She's pretty much a 3 event gymnast.... I don't know why Aly being bad on bars should get a free pass; anymore than Romania should get a free pass because they were bad on bars too....

Mustafina doesn't have the same difficult as Raisman does on vault and floor but at least her vault and her floor were well executed. The same cannot be said about Aly's bars...

Seriously if being terrible on an event doesn't matter its too bad Alicia and Cheng Fei never just went up there and did giants on the uneven bars. Then people could argue that "they are a better all arounder than people who showed they could compete decently on all of the events.. If Tim Daggett is saying that Raisman's 14.3 was generous, its saying something..

Its like arguing Romania's bars should be ignored because they are so strong on 3 events...All around includes all four...Mustafina doesn't have the same difficulty but at least she can execute well all of the events. This isn't a Shawn situation where Shawn was a decent bar worker and Liukin was able to get by just because bars were ridiculously weighed.

Normally the tie breaking rule would actually have helped Aly, because her bars would be thrown out...Its just this time she had two scores in the low 14s rather than just one score in the low 14s.

[pollyanna]

You can't ignore one entire event.

But isn't that exactly what the AA tiebreak system does?

[Theatregirl1122]

You can't ignore one entire event.

bek, do you not even realize how hilarious and contradictory you are at this point?

You are DEFENDING having the tie breaker be to drop one event entirely! How does that not equal ignoring one entire event? skittl1321 is saying that, if you were to look at higher placements, Aly had the higher placement on 3/4 events which could be a way to indicate that she was consistently better than Aliya that night. That's not ignoring one event, that going with the majority.

Dropping the score of one event entirely is the actual definition of ignoring one event.

I'm in favor of adding all the dropped scores back if taking the prelim score really isn't an option.

[bek]

But isn't that exactly what the AA tiebreak system does?

As I mentioned above normally said rule would help Aly because she always has a score in the low 14s bars.. This time though she had another score in the low 14s and thats what killed her vs. Aliya. Once again showing one girl having solid scores first 3 events; versus another girl having 2 solid scores and 2 not good scores.

In contrast one could argue maybe highest execution would work-that also would have gone to Mustafina.

And once again no I don't think just because Raisman does one extra twist on vault, that makes her a better gymnast than Aliya... In terms of beam I have no doubt Mustafina will be back in form there in a few a months.