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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And as for Carolina, I, at least, didn't make the connection that this was her boyfriend until someone here pointed it out. So I am not sure how strong the connection is going to be elsewhere, or how much difference it would make to her sponsors.
    It's pretty well-known; she's mentioned him quite often in interviews, though not always by name, and a lot of the media coverage links them together. They've done TV appearances together (didn't they do some kind of trashy TV questionnaire a few years back?). Their relationship is mentioned on her Wikipedia page, too. And of course the positive test happened when he was with her in Oberstdorf, and that's certainly going to get mentioned in the press.

    ETA: Schwazer says Carolina didn't know, but then I wouldn't have expected him to say anything else.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Come on, this is really splitting hairs. Racewalking is probably one of the least covered sports within athletics. We're talking about the sport itself, not about which grouping it falls under.
    In your country, maybe. Not here.
    A grumpy Canadian will always be nicer than a polite Milanese

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Come on, this is really splitting hairs. Racewalking is probably one of the least covered sports within athletics. We're talking about the sport itself, not about which grouping it falls under.
    In your part of the world perhaps. Not elsewhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    If it's being "talked about", I get that, but none of us have any way of knowing what questions are going to be asked at press conferences a couple of months from now.
    "Carolina, you've had a difficult couple of months with injury and your BF being banned from competing due to failing a drugs test......"

    "Did you know your BF was doping?"

    "How did it make you feel when you found out?"

    Etc.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  4. #44
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    It was a mistake that Carolina didn't clearly say before this mess why she won't do the GP. Because Schwazer was tested a couple of days before she withdrew from the GP, so it would have been wise from her to also tell why because some articles are already speculating...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko View Post
    He got positive for erythropoietin (EPO), a peptide hormone that our bodies also produce. There's no point to add a foreign chemical to mask it. (We need EPO to produce red blood cells.) It was very difficult to develop a good doping test for EPO because there is very small difference between genetically engineered EPO and natural EPO produced in human body, and it was very easy to get a false positive. But it looks like there's reliable method available, sensitive and specific enough.

    I wonder how long he's been injecting EPO. There's a possibility that he's been using it for some time but never caught just because there was no reliable test available. There's no way to prove that, though.
    Oh, I know all too well just what EPO is and what it does. I was on Dialysis for close to two years and since the kidneys are what produces our red blood cells, I was put on it once my blood work showed my hemoglobin was dropping.

    However, EPO is *not* the exact same thing as the hormone we naturally produce. Yes, it's a hormone, but the ability to find it in an athlete's doping sample has also become far more advanced and there are now masking agents that can be taken along w/it. That's why there was so much coverage/pieces that I saw before the Games about this new "DNA Passport" WADA's now got. Since they can now pinpoint the increase in things such as hemoglobin between events, unless there's an honest to goodness legitimate reason why that happened, basically the athlete's caught.

    The ones that got nailed before the Games were caught like that IIRC.

    What I can't even figure out though is why on earth they'd take something that hurts so badly when they don't need it. Well, of course I do when it comes to taking it for this, but you all know what I mean...Forget the payment you'll end up having down the road, but that stuff...Well...As I once described to a Cousin of mine...

    I'm assuming everyone's been stung by a bee, hornet or wasp? Pick the one out of the three that hurt the most. Okay then, now picture getting stung (For me it's a hornet) by that particular form of insect in the same place not once, not twice, but ten times all at once.

    That's how much that stuff hurts when it's given to you. I hear others who worked on farms say to them it was like getting kicked by five or six horses all at once.

    I really feel so awful for Carolina. I can already hear the pieces being put together for the events she attends this Season being edited at the Networks...

  6. #46
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    I wonder if this is a "deal breaker" for Carolina.
    Disclaimer: The post contained herein represents the opinions of a fan and may or may not bear any relation to reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celine82 View Post


    But EPO?! Are people seriously still hoping they won't get caught on that?!
    I believe exogenous EPO can be undetectable within days while having lingering effects that are beneficial to the athlete's performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by AragornElessar View Post
    According to CTV's report on Primetime, it was the ever popular Pot Brownie.

    Of all the idiotic things to do...

    ...
    I think it is silly that pot is a banned substance as it certainly won't enhance an athlete's physical performance, AFAIK. I can understand why the IOC wouldn't want someone to go down a ski hill completely bombed, but I don't get why they would strip a medal in a case like this. I feel really bad for him

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    ...
    Interestingly, any reference to Alex Schwazer has now disappeared from Kostner's ISU bio.
    When was the last time a reference to Schwazer appeared on her ISU bio? Does anyone know? I am not in the habit of checking those, and now you've got me curious.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AYS View Post
    I wonder if this is a "deal breaker" for Carolina.
    I don't see why it would be. It's not like he embezzled money or causing someone physical harm, etc. I don't see it as a crime other than he cheated in an attempt to win a competition. I don't think that makes him a bad person necessarily.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    I don't see why it would be. It's not like he embezzled money or causing someone physical harm, etc. I don't see it as a crime other than he cheated in an attempt to win a competition. I don't think that makes him a bad person necessarily.
    I think it says a lot about someone's character and their personal integrity to want to cheat at this level and at this age. He's not only cheating himself, but he's cheating his fellow competitors and insulting the spirit of the games IMO.

    Not saying that should dictate anything about their relationship, but it's definitely food for thought.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    I think it says a lot about someone's character and their personal integrity to want to cheat at this level and at this age. He's not only cheating himself, but he's cheating his fellow competitors and insulting the spirit of the games IMO.

    Not saying that should dictate anything about their relationship, but it's definitely food for thought.
    I see what you mean, but I also wonder how many of these doping athletes really think they are giving themselves an unfair advantage over their competitors. If the use of exogenous EPO is perceived by some athletes and their coaches to be a common practice in the sport, perhaps they feel that in using it themselves they are just leveling the playing field?

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    I see what you mean, but I also wonder how many of these doping athletes really think they are giving themselves an unfair advantage over their competitors. If the use of exogenous EPO is perceived by some athletes and their coaches to be a common practice in the sport, perhaps they feel that in using it themselves they are just leveling the playing field?
    I think unfortunately this may be closer to the truth than we are willing to admit. At least, this is exactly what every single whistleblower says (well, not really whistleblowers but mostly people who have been caught doping or supplying the drugs). I guess it could be argued they just say that to create an excuse for themselves, but I'm inclined to believe it's pretty much the truth.
    Don't you find it worrying that doctors call treating you their "practice" ?

  12. #52

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    There's a short article about it on Ice Network, with a statement from Schwazer's agent regarding Carolina's plans; I'm not sure why his agent is making a statement for her. There's obviously a lot more information in the Italian press, but I'd rather trust someone who actually speaks Italian over Google Translate.

    One thing that can be said in Schwazer's favor is that as far as I can tell he took responsibility for what he did immediately - no talk about B samples, tainted food/nutritional supplements, how he just took some over the counter medicine, or any of that. It does make his account more believable, IMO.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    There's a short article about it on Ice Network, with a statement from Schwazer's agent regarding Carolina's plans; I'm not sure why his agent is making a statement for her.
    They have the same agent, that's why. Alex will have a press conference with the media today at 12a.m. in Bolzano. Several articles are coming out in the Italian press mentioning Carolina. They basically say she didn't know what he was doing, she's very upset with him right know but won't turn her back to him as a person. Those same articles say she's still in Oberstdorf getting ready for the new season and her withdrawl from the GP isn't connected with what is happening at Alex.

  14. #54
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    it's also said that Kostner will start the season with the Italian Championships (December, I think)
    Italian media are picturing this athlete like a murderer. that's ridicolous, what about powerful people who do all sort of wrong things? they don't get this treatment.
    btw it's obvious that this guy is not well at all mentally, he'll have to work hard on his problems.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by AragornElessar View Post
    Oh, I know all too well just what EPO is and what it does. I was on Dialysis for close to two years and since the kidneys are what produces our red blood cells, I was put on it once my blood work showed my hemoglobin was dropping.

    However, EPO is *not* the exact same thing as the hormone we naturally produce. Yes, it's a hormone, but the ability to find it in an athlete's doping sample has also become far more advanced and there are now masking agents that can be taken along w/it. That's why there was so much coverage/pieces that I saw before the Games about this new "DNA Passport" WADA's now got. Since they can now pinpoint the increase in things such as hemoglobin between events, unless there's an honest to goodness legitimate reason why that happened, basically the athlete's caught.

    The ones that got nailed before the Games were caught like that IIRC.
    What exactly are the test method and masking agents you are talking about?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythropoietin
    http://theconversation.edu.au/lance-...they-work-7666

    I bet WADA check athletes' blood profiles, including hematocrit and red blood cell counts, but such general profiling is an indirect method, does not directly prove presence of rEPO (recombinant, genetically engineered EPO), and can be easily affected by masking agents like diuretics. (See the Armstrong article above.)

    That is why WADA has established an isoelectric focusing & immunoblotting method.
    http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...2007epo_en.pdf

    This method can distinguish rEPO from natuaral EPO produced by human body and directly prove presence of rEPO, and masking agents are useless. It's very specific (isoelectric focusing & immunoblotting) and sensitive (chemiluminescence).

    It looks like Schwazer was not aware of this method or he didn't know how powerful it is.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Carolina Kostner was a public figure, and a high profile one at that, well before she ever got together with Alex Schwazer - and I imagine most of her income and sponsorships do not derive from her status as his girlfriend.
    Well, most is not a whole, and Kostner didn't pass on the rest.

    The first time the news of them being a couple was officially out, I remember seeing pictures where you could easily spot stuff from her sponsors. - The pics were clear, taken with consent (remuneration?), supposedly candind, not in a studio.

    So, yes, they benefited financially from being a marketable couple.

    Now of course that has drawbacks. If you put yourself out there (and earn from it nontheless), you open the door for people to speculate when anything stains the pretty picture.

    And that's a big stain.

  17. #57
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  18. #58
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    Full press conferance:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqBYI5GV9nQ
    (he does mention Carolina)

    News video ft Carolina Kostner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_I9X...hannel&list=UL
    Last edited by DaiKozOda; 08-09-2012 at 07:19 PM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    I found this bit interesting:

    After studying how to take and buy the drug on the Internet, he said he flew to Turkey in September 2011 for three days, exchanged 1,500 euros for Turkish lira, went to a pharmacy and bought EPO over the counter.
    You can buy EPO over the counter?
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    You can buy EPO over the counter?
    Assuming this is a credible source, then you can't do it legally, at least not in Turkey.

    Not surprisingly, it looks like the IOC will re-test his Beijing samples.

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