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  1. #101
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    Has Hall competed yet? If not, I'm wondering if he does not get the results he hoped for, will God file a protest on his behalf?
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Has Hall competed yet? If not, I'm wondering if he does not get the results he hoped for, will God file a protest on his behalf?
    Only if the Karolyis are around and tell him to.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Leap_of_Faith/

    BBC program looking more in depth at the relationship between athletes and their faith (different faiths).
    All drive home the point that it's not about praying to win.
    When confronted by the illogicality of their statements of course they're going to backtrack. But when you read statements like below for example, it is hard to deny that what they are saying is that God had a hand in their success which means he/she/it is also responsible for someone else's failure.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/oth...321876742.html

    A devout Christian, Taylor insisted the journey to this stage of a remarkable career could not have been accomplished alone.

    "I dreamt of this moment so many times before and now I just can't believe the grace of God in my life right now,” she told RTÉ. “I just want to thank everyone for all their prayers. I said it yesterday, as well, with all the prayers over the last week. I'd be nothing without God.

    “I’m here because of the grace of God in my life and because of Jesus in my life and without him I'd be nothing really. So praise God, thank you Jesus for such a great victory today."
    For anyone who watches athletics the above is by no means a rare statement for an athlete to make.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  4. #104

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    I guess that making the point that praising God for victory in absolutely no way, shape or form related to praying for victory is lost on you? Of course they praise God for victory. Of course!!!!! Giving God the credit for success doesn't mean you believe he should give it to you. It's considered a mercy, a grace - not something you deserve, but something you give thanks for.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I guess that making the point that praising God for victory in absolutely no way, shape or form related to praying for victory is lost on you? Of course they praise God for victory. Of course!!!!! Giving God the credit for success doesn't mean you believe he should give it to you. It's considered a mercy, a grace - not something you deserve, but something you give thanks for.
    But don't you see how some may feel this is insulting to the people who didn't win? It's basically saying, God chose me and not you.
    Roll Tide, y'all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxygirl View Post
    But don't you see how some may feel this is insulting to the people who didn't win? It's basically saying, God chose me and not you.
    I can see that it can be misinterpreted - but it's about saying "I realise it's a privilege to be experiencing this, I don't believe I'm a superior human for having achieved this, I'm grateful for the gift of experiencing this, for being given this ability and opportunity."

    It's not that God chose you because you deserve it, or because you're a better person - in christian theology at least. In the bible, some of the greatest characters experience the greatest suffering throughout their whole lives (Jeremiah for instance).
    Christian athletes who experience permanent defeat are expected to praise God for their losses as well - in fact their twitters etc often reveal this. It's easier to praise God in victory, but you're meant to praise him in loss as well.

    As Usain Bolt put it this morning (grammar issues aside):
    https://twitter.com/usainbolt

    The christianese term for this post-victory thanks is "giving God back the Glory". He gives you a gift, you give him back the praise.

    And yes, it does imply that he does not give to all equally, that not only does he give and take away, but that for some he withholds entirely when it comes to human experience. That's when the christian faith gets complicated and difficult to understand...
    Last edited by millyskate; 08-10-2012 at 10:12 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I can see that it can be misinterpreted - but it's about saying "I realise it's a privilege to be experiencing this, I don't believe I'm a superior human for having achieved this, I'm grateful for the gift of experiencing this, for being given this ability and opportunity."

    It's not that God chose you because you deserve it, or because you're a better person - in christian theology at least. In the bible, some of the greatest characters experience the greatest suffering throughout their whole lives (Jeremiah for instance).
    Christian athletes who experience permanent defeat are expected to praise God for their losses as well - in fact their twitters etc often reveal this. It's easier to praise God in victory, but you're meant to praise him in loss as well.
    This.

    I'm a Christian, and God blesses me. He also is with me when I go through the hard times. I praise Him in both the good times and the bad. If I was an Olympic athlete, I would give Him praise if I won, too - just because I love Him so much. I would not be saying that I didn't work hard, or that He favored me over others. It would be because I was thankful that He has been there through everything. I would praise Him if I placed dead last, too - again, just because I love Him so much.

    Job is another example of someone who suffered in the Bible, and never lost his faith in God. He wasn't always happy with it, but he never stopped trusting.

  8. #108
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    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    I guess that making the point that praising God for victory in absolutely no way, shape or form related to praying for victory is lost on you? Of course they praise God for victory. Of course!!!!! Giving God the credit for success doesn't mean you believe he should give it to you. It's considered a mercy, a grace - not something you deserve, but something you give thanks for.
    I don't know about you, but when I thank someone it means I feel they have had a hand in helping me. When athletes thank God for winning, they are saying that God also had a hand in defeating their opponents. You and others can try to rationalise and say that's not what they mean at all, but that is the logical conclusion of thanking God for aiding them to win.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I don't know about you, but when I thank someone it means I feel they have had a hand in helping me. When athletes thank God for winning, they are saying that God also had a hand in defeating their opponents. You and others can try to rationalise and say that's not what they mean at all, but that is the logical conclusion of thanking God for aiding them to win.
    You're right - it does imply that God had a hand in helping them. Depending on your theological sensitivity, that helping hand can be as remote as creating the world and humanity - with athleticism and competitive sporting events being a distant, yet positive consequence of that initial gift of life. Some believe that God influences every day events too.

    But what it does not imply is that people ask for victory. They don't - or barely ever. If they do, it's got a "if this is your will" tagged onto the end of it. And Christians will tell you that the "no" or "not yet" answer to prayer is far more common than the "yes" answer.

    God influencing results (not many people believe this) or using results for his purpose (more common perspective) can just as much mean using defeat and setbacks to mold your character as it can mean using victory to make you happy. So the defeated opponents aren't missing out on God's blessing - they're being blessed in a different way.

    In that sense, you're not "superior" or "special" for having ended up in the victor's seat. It's considered the combination of God given gifts that are remote (the creation of humanity), some that are closer (the ability and opportunity), and your hard work (your duty anyway if you have the gift).

    So giving God the glory is meant as an act of humility - almost a disclaimer saying "don't praise me, the athlete, because I didn't do anything to deserve being born healthy and athletic and with parents who could pay for my training, but praise God, who made the wonderful human body and the wonderful human mind that set up this incredible event and made the TV you're watching it on". (although I realise it's not always perceived that way)
    Last edited by millyskate; 08-12-2012 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #111
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    (deleted - double post)

  12. #112
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    What I wonder about is the part where he says, "I ask Him questions like, 'How far should I run today?'"

    The runner answers this question himself on a day to day basis based on a feeling he believes God is telling him. But this is so exacting. Maybe that phone/audiobook commercial was very on, i.e. the answer/feeling this runner gets is, "For as long as you can listen to this story!" rather than, "26 miles!" - ya know?

    Anyway, here's a really interesting item for this thread. Platform diver David Boudia finished 18th in prelims, last to qualify for the semis. In his NBC interview, the interviewer asked something like, "How did it feel to barely qualify?" David replied something like, "The awesome thing about this is that God is perfect and sovereign, so if I make it I make it, and if I don't, I don't."

    Then he won gold!

    The *feeling* I personally get when I see winners interviewed praising God is that they mean God wanted them to win over other people, so I get uncomfortable hearing that. It might not be what they mean, but it's how it sounds. Perhaps it isn't, "Praise God that I won!" but, "Whether I win or lose, God is with me, praise! I just happen to be in an interview after winning ..."

    I say all of the above with no particular comment on my own beliefs.

  13. #113

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    Ryan Hall has just abandoned in the early stages of the marathon. for his interviews

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by millyskate View Post
    Ryan Hall has just abandoned in the early stages of the marathon. for his interviews
    God must have been busy in Evan's camp.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  15. #115
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    Well I did think he should have been in Church at 11am (Normal time for Sunday Services in the UK) rather than about to start a marathon. God is obviously displeased!
    Dont Hate! Gyrate!

  16. #116

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    Hall looks like he has dropped out with injury. There is always Rio.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHARPIE View Post
    Well I did think he should have been in Church at 11am (Normal time for Sunday Services in the UK) rather than about to start a marathon. God is obviously displeased!
    I am so glad that God did not strike Ryan down for not resting on the Sabbath.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  18. #118

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    Hall has the right to believe whatever he wants, and train the way he wants. This should not make him an ideal subject for derision.
    “Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.” William Shakespeare

  19. #119
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    Here's what he had to say in one interview (from USA Today):

    "It was my right hamstring," he said. "I don't know if it is tendinitis or something up high in the connection. But it was nothing that was that serious in training. We've been doing a lot of work on it to keep it clean, but it is just something that got progressively tighter as the race was going on. I felt like I was really favoring my stride and didn't want to get injured. I've never DNF'd a race before, so this is a first for me. Not finishing a race is not an option unless I think I'm going to do serious damage to my career. Those last couple of miles I'm weighing in my head, 'do I sit out here and could I have run 26 miles and finish in 3 hours or something.' But my stride was getting worse and worse. … This wasn't something I could work through."
    No mention of his coach.....
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Hall has the right to believe whatever he wants, and train the way he wants.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    This should not make him an ideal subject for derision.
    Disagree.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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