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  1. #21
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    And to make it even more of a stupid move, not only was it so obvious what they were doing, but they did it when the President of the IOC was in the building to boot.

    Kudos to the Badminton Federation for their very quick action on booting these idjits out on their tails!! Deservedly so.

    Best tweet regarding the Canadian Ladies getting this second chance and I'm going from memory and paraprashing too...

    "Bruce Li lives again!!"


  2. #22
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    on ABC they said the South Koreans' explanation was "well China did it first so we decided to do the same thing"

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    I very much disagree with the disqualifications. The teams are playing logically. If the loser gets a better draw, then that's a flaw with the system. The teams are being strategic. Unless it's explicitly stated in the rules that such strategies are illegal, then this is unfair.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkats View Post
    on ABC they said the South Koreans' explanation was "well China did it first so we decided to do the same thing"
    And all I can think of is my grandmother saying: "If your friend jumped off a cliff, would you jump off a cliff too?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    I very much disagree with the disqualifications. The teams are playing logically. If the loser gets a better draw, then that's a flaw with the system. The teams are being strategic. Unless it's explicitly stated in the rules that such strategies are illegal, then this is unfair.
    I completely agree with you and think it's unfair. In fact, this was discussed among some of my coworkers today and out of the 4 of us, only 1 person thought the players should not play like that. And even he thought the disqualification was too harsh.

    The badminton federation should take responsibility for making this ridiculous round robin format that gives teams an incentive to lose rather than dumping the dirt onto the players.

    These teams aren't playing an exhibition match for the audience--they are (well, were) playing so they could win a medal. Yes, if I were a paying member in the audience, I'd be p*ssed, but I would never blame the players for thinking strategically.

    Regardless, the South Koreans' justification is .

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    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    The badminton federation should take responsibility for making this ridiculous round robin format that gives teams an incentive to lose rather than dumping the dirt onto the players.

    These teams aren't playing an exhibition match for the audience--they are (well, were) playing so they could win a medal. Yes, if I were a paying member in the audience, I'd be p*ssed, but I would never blame the players for thinking strategically.

    Regardless, the South Koreans' justification is .
    The federation were doing what lots of sports do with the round robin format. It is not ridiculous. That certain players latched onto an idea of a strategy which clearly did them no favours and made them look bad was ridiculous. So in the end they lost out and it did bring their sport into disrepute. It is an example of really poor sportsmanship. And there are other players who whilst may not be the top players but they go out and perform to their best. One of the teams that was disqualified was the World Champions.

    People paid money to see a world class competition, not people being dickheads.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    Yes, if I were a paying member in the audience, I'd be p*ssed, but I would never blame the players for thinking strategically.
    Actually, if I were a paying audience member, I'd love to have been in that match over any other badminton match in the Olympics. What a unique experience!

    To all those Olympic and badminton officials: You wouldn't have had this problem if you had designed a tournament that would make people actually want to win.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    I very much disagree with the disqualifications. The teams are playing logically. If the loser gets a better draw, then that's a flaw with the system. The teams are being strategic. Unless it's explicitly stated in the rules that such strategies are illegal, then this is unfair.
    If you could call what they were doing "playing."

    You could have taken a pair of random 8-year-olds off the street, given them rackets and a shuttlecock, and the results would have been pretty much the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    I very much disagree with the disqualifications. The teams are playing logically. If the loser gets a better draw, then that's a flaw with the system. The teams are being strategic. Unless it's explicitly stated in the rules that such strategies are illegal, then this is unfair.
    Actually I believe the rules state that what they did was illegal and hence their being suspended.
    From an article I found here it states
    ""The pairs have been charged ... with 'not using one's best efforts to win a match' and 'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'," the WBF said in a statement."
    Crazy about sports!

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Actually I believe the rules state that what they did was illegal and hence their being suspended.
    From an article I found here it states
    ""The pairs have been charged ... with 'not using one's best efforts to win a match' and 'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'," the WBF said in a statement."
    Is that actually in the official rulebook?

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    The federation were doing what lots of sports do with the round robin format. It is not ridiculous. That certain players latched onto an idea of a strategy which clearly did them no favours and made them look bad was ridiculous. So in the end they lost out and it did bring their sport into disrepute. It is an example of really poor sportsmanship. And there are other players who whilst may not be the top players but they go out and perform to their best. One of the teams that was disqualified was the World Champions.

    People paid money to see a world class competition, not people being dickheads.
    What's different, then, about the Japanese women's soccer team and their strategy in going for a tie rather than a win? If they won, they would have had to travel to Scotland and face USA or France, 2 extremely strong teams. So the coach and the players decided to go for a tie in the game. Should they be disqualified as well?

    (see this article for more information and details http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...hes/56630488/1)

    IMO, this type of game strategy should not be punished. Better to lose a match so you can win the tournament.

    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Actually I believe the rules state that what they did was illegal and hence their being suspended.
    From an article I found here it states
    ""The pairs have been charged ... with 'not using one's best efforts to win a match' and 'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'," the WBF said in a statement."
    Here's my view:
    "Not using one's best efforts to win a match."
    1) Is this actually in the rulebook?
    2) This is the same thing many swimmers do in heats and semis. This is not a justification for disqualification.

    "'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'"
    1) I agree that the players were guilty of the above, but I think disqualification is too harsh. The players weren't cheating, they weren't bribing referees, they weren't taking drugs. They just wanted to win the tournament.

    (That said, my perspective (and those of my coworkers) are likely colored by our current experiences in an intense and stressful environment where there's someone in tears nearly every week. So perhaps that's why so many of us view the idea of competition and winning differently.)

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    Here's my view:
    "Not using one's best efforts to win a match."
    1) Is this actually in the rulebook?
    2) This is the same thing many swimmers do in heats and semis. This is not a justification for disqualification.

    "'conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport'"
    1) I agree that the players were guilty of the above, but I think disqualification is too harsh. The players weren't cheating, they weren't bribing referees, they weren't taking drugs. They just wanted to win the tournament.

    (That said, my perspective (and those of my coworkers) are likely colored by our current experiences in an intense and stressful environment where there's someone in tears nearly every week. So perhaps that's why so many of us view the idea of competition and winning differently.)
    But did you watch the match?

    You have very high standards, being a medical student. I don't think you would allow yourself to pass a class with a D even if you could get away with it not showing on your transcript. Even when I gave up on a B and set my English literature requirement class as pass/fail, I still tried the best I could. Even though I knew I wouldn't fail, I still tried my best. And I don't possess even 10% of the competitiveness it would take to succeed in medical school.

    What these players were doing was farce. They were not playing. Period. They were waving their rackets half-heartedly. They completely and utterly failed at their sport. It was not only an embarrassment to them and their country, but to the Olympics as a whole. And it was a decision that THEY made to take advantage of this loophole the most embarrassing way possible.

    This is the Olympics. If you wanted to make it easier on yourself, you wouldn't have chosen this life. You wouldn't have chosen medical school. But you did. You embraced the challenge and the hardships that would come with it. And these athletes, if they had truly embraced the Olympic spirit, would have welcomed the extra challenge playing a harder team instead of trying to lose to avoid them.

  13. #33
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    Just when I think I've seen it all online, someone always surprises me.

    As was explained in the Press Conference, it's actually in the Badminton Fed's Rule Book to show Sportsmanship at all times and not to do anything to discredit the Sport.

    They did both those things on the biggest stage this Sport has and in turn the Badminton Federation did what needed to be done. For anyone to scream "Unfair!!" and that they'd be thrilled if they were there in that crowd!?!

    As I said, just when I think I've seen it all online...

  14. #34
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    I watched the highlights of the match. I was so hard I cried.

    I'm sure there are athletes who don't give wholehearted efforts until the final as part of their strategy. I think these badminton players are disqualified because they have made a ridiculous show of that strategy, and the ptb made an example out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazpacho View Post
    To all those Olympic and badminton officials: You wouldn't have had this problem if you had designed a tournament that would make people actually want to win.
    I completely agree with you. The tournament is very poorly designed in these games. Were the same design used in the past Olympics? If so, it's high time to change the game rather than punish players.

    These 8 players are the ultimate victims. They trained for years and years and now this.

    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    What's different, then, about the Japanese women's soccer team and their strategy in going for a tie rather than a win? If they won, they would have had to travel to Scotland and face USA or France, 2 extremely strong teams. So the coach and the players decided to go for a tie in the game. Should they be disqualified as well?
    Yep, there is a reason in World Cup they do parallel games.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I watched the highlights of the match. I was so hard I cried.

    I'm sure there are athletes who don't give wholehearted efforts until the final as part of their strategy. I think these badminton players are disqualified because they have made a ridiculous show of that strategy, and the ptb made an example out of them.
    Oh yeah, I saw some clips. It was hilarious to watch! Which makes me think this game design is quite new and players haven't figured out how to "lose gracefully" yet. Unlike in soccer and many other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I watched the highlights of the match. I was so hard I cried.

    I'm sure there are athletes who don't give wholehearted efforts until the final as part of their strategy. I think these badminton players are disqualified because they have made a ridiculous show of that strategy, and the ptb made an example out of them.
    Seriously! I was NOT kidding about the flailing-in-the-pool and taking-random-8-year-olds-off-the-street analogies. That's honestly how badly they were playing!

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    But did you watch the match?

    You have very high standards, being a medical student. I don't think you would allow yourself to pass a class with a D even if you could get away with it not showing on your transcript. Even when I gave up on a B and set my English literature requirement class as pass/fail, I still tried the best I could. Even though I knew I wouldn't fail, I still tried my best. And I don't possess even 10% of the competitiveness it would take to succeed in medical school.

    What these players were doing was farce. They were not playing. Period. They were waving their rackets half-heartedly. They completely and utterly failed at their sport. It was not only an embarrassment to them and their country, but to the Olympics as a whole. And it was a decision that THEY made to take advantage of this loophole the most embarrassing way possible.

    This is the Olympics. If you wanted to make it easier on yourself, you wouldn't have chosen this life. You wouldn't have chosen medical school. But you did. You embraced the challenge and the hardships that would come with it. And these athletes, if they had truly embraced the Olympic spirit, would have welcomed the extra challenge playing a harder team instead of trying to lose to avoid them.
    Yes, but is putting one's best effort forth really in the rulebook? It sounds more like something the IOC pulled out of their ass because the players in question decided to give everyone the business.
    IMHO doing your best is something you should do if you're at this level ,and I find it quite insane that one wouldn't do so. Unfortunately, part of being a good competitor is having a strategy to win, and sometimes ,and regrettably so, that includes taking advantage of sloppy rule-making. I don't agree with the disqualification; however, I understand why it occurred, since I find the way those competitors handled themselves and played the game to be utterly ludicrous.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    But did you watch the match?

    You have very high standards, being a medical student. I don't think you would allow yourself to pass a class with a D even if you could get away with it not showing on your transcript. Even when I gave up on a B and set my English literature requirement class as pass/fail, I still tried the best I could. Even though I knew I wouldn't fail, I still tried my best. And I don't possess even 10% of the competitiveness it would take to succeed in medical school.
    Okay, 1) I'm not in medical school right now, I'm actually talking about grad school and 2) let me tell you about med school. There are things that matter and some things that don't. For example, at the end of 2nd year, we were all required to take a long (3-4 hours maybe) mock exam simulating the USMLE step 1 exam. No one wanted to take the exam; the score wouldn't show up anywhere or impact anything, but it was a requirement from our administration. I think more than 1/2 our class left after only an hour, just clicking random answers to the questions. We were tired and had to learn the lectures and study for the next exam (an exam that actually mattered). So, yeah, most of us didn't give our best effort on something that didn't matter so we could go home early, and get some rest or study for the exam that mattered. Well, of course, the curriculum directors see the average class score (a low score) which might be embarrassing for them... but for us? No, we did what was in our best interest.

    No, I didn't watch the competition but I don't think how "well" or "badly" someone tries to lose should factor in this situation.

    I'm still curious what people think of the Japanese women soccer team situation. It's not much different, yet they did not get disqualified.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by altai_rose View Post
    Okay, 1) I'm not in medical school right now, I'm actually talking about grad school and 2) let me tell you about med school. There are things that matter and some things that don't. For example, at the end of 2nd year, we were all required to take a long (3-4 hours maybe) mock exam simulating the USMLE step 1 exam. No one wanted to take the exam; the score wouldn't show up anywhere or impact anything, but it was a requirement from our administration. I think more than 1/2 our class left after only an hour, just clicking random answers to the questions. We were tired and had to learn the lectures and study for the next exam (an exam that actually mattered). So, yeah, most of us didn't give our best effort on something that didn't matter so we could go home early, and get some rest or study for the exam that mattered. Well, of course, the curriculum directors see the average class score (a low score) which might be embarrassing for them... but for us? No, we did what was in our best interest.

    No, I didn't watch the competition but I don't think how "well" or "badly" someone tries to lose should factor in this situation.

    I'm still curious what people think of the Japanese women soccer team situation. It's not much different, yet they did not get disqualified.
    Funny, I related the entire saga to the grad students I work with, and they agreed that the players should be punished if they refused to play to vaguely Olympic standards. Just because you want to bring the class average down doesn't mean you should write, "Kiss my ass" to every exam question, ya know?

    And I did not watch the Japanese soccer game, but I don't think they repeated kicked goals into their own net. That would warrant the same punishment. There's a difference between dribbling the ball between players without really trying to score, and what these badminton players did.

    And I do think that how badly someone tries to lose does factor in this situation. Because the players did not play badminton period, they showed they did not care about playing at the Olympics. And because of that level of apathy, they were shown the door.

    I'm mostly still at how obviously they were throwing the game, not that they planned to lose strategically. As you said, it's strategy. But if you're going to use it, you'd better play your cards right. If you're going to lose strategically, you should at least be able to fake it well.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    Yes, but is putting one's best effort forth really in the rulebook?
    I haven't read the badminton rulebook, but according to the press conference, the answer to that question is yes.

    (I take no responsibility if they were lying in the press conference.)

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