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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minou View Post
    For M&D fans, this article is 2-years old, but I haven't seen it posted.

    digital.publicationprinters.com/publication/repo25/12097/69151/69151-10.pdf

    (I hope the link works. I tried to make a "tinyurl," but it didn't work. It's Skating Magazine April 2011. Author article is Lois ELFMAN.)
    Article link works now: http://digital.publicationprinters.c...1/69151-10.pdf
    (Natalia M's long-time student, Steven Evans, did not compete in Senior Men this season, and I assume he is now focusing on college full-time.)
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-02-2013 at 03:56 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #102
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    Something in my foggy memory is telling me that after Natalia and Artur split that she moved to the US and briefly tried to skate pairs with a hockey player (boyfriend?).... Was that Natalia, or am I thinking of someone else? No, not "Cutting Edge", I mean in real life....

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeLurker View Post
    Something in my foggy memory is telling me that after Natalia and Artur split that she moved to the US and briefly tried to skate pairs with a hockey player (boyfriend?).... Was that Natalia, or am I thinking of someone else? No, not "Cutting Edge", I mean in real life....
    That hockey player was her first husband. They competed in a pro competition. They could do lifts but not spins.

    They divorced and she remarried.

  4. #104
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    Thank you, Vash01! Looks like I remembered the gist of it.

  5. #105

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    For the 1994 LP, I heard that their coaches had initially chosen Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake music, but M&D said they wanted to skate to Rach2, and they did great. I have wondered at times how the Swan Lake program might have looked like. I don't know what part of Swan Lake they would have skated, but Rach2 seemed so perfect for them!

  6. #106
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    I hadn't seen this before on youtube, this is the medal ceremony from Lillehammer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXjJd0S2TLI

    Still IMO the greatest Olympic pair competition of all time. But ... now that it's been almost 20 years (wow!) I'm irritated at all the media fawning back then of G&G. Yes they were the storybook couple while M&D had problems on and off the ice, but Lillehammer had unusually tired and sloppy performances from G&G in both the SP and LP. But people got so caught up in the storybook romance stuff back then.

  7. #107
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    Hi,

    Have you have seen this video called "Mishkutenok & Dmitriev versus Gordeeva & Grinkov" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZFLYV6CTlM
    also here is the link to the technical analysis of both programs http://www.gg-corner.de/?p=608

    Once you read this, you can see why G&G had the most difficult program.

    I enjoy both programs and I think it's true that M&D's LP ending is probably one ot the best ending of all times.

  8. #108

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    Thanks for posting that analysis Trouble77. Very interesting and insightful.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #109
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    I only read the first and last parts of that but I found it a bit unfair to M&D. G&G's unison on their 2axel over M&D's 3toe doesn't override the difference in difficulty, especially since Sergei broke unison by making mistakes on much easier jumps elsewhere. And I disagree that Natalia's 2axel doesn't count at all because of a slight two foot - if that were the case, Baiul would barely have been credited any triples in the free. (Even if that's what it said in the rulebook, it clearly wasn't followed in practice). I think you kinda have to give it to M&D on jumps. You can give G&G other categories and the overall win, but saying the base mark on jumps was lower for M&D just makes that blogger look overly biased.

  10. #110
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    I think Gordeeva/Grinkov were lucky that there weren't internet message boards during their heyday in the late 1980s and early to mid 1990s. I think some of their winning performances would've been skewered like Patrick Chan.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think Gordeeva/Grinkov were lucky that there weren't internet message boards during their heyday in the late 1980s and early to mid 1990s. I think some of their winning performances would've been skewered like Patrick Chan.
    Not quite that much. Their only real 'gift' was the 1990 worlds championship, where they (Katia) made two mistakes on jumps (but not a fall), and skated rest of the program clean but with less intensity than usual. The 1994 OGM was really a toss up. Two great pairs skated two great programs. I have gone back and forth on this result many times, although in the end I had a slight lean toward M&D. My only problem was that M&D's marks were much lower than they deserved, and it should have been much closer - a 4:5 split either way. It appeared that the judges had already decided to give the gold to G&G, unless they fell a couple of times.

    Of course that does not mean that on internet chatboards we would not have had endless and passionate debates about the 1990 worlds results and the 1994 Olympics results.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think Gordeeva/Grinkov were lucky that there weren't internet message boards during their heyday in the late 1980s and early to mid 1990s. I think some of their winning performances would've been skewered like Patrick Chan.
    Actually, there *were* Internet message boards in the late 1980s and early 1990s. However, there was no World Wide Web and no browser interfaces. If you dig deep enough, you can find them on the web.

    I have seen the comparison video where the poster makes her case for G&G. It's an editorial; and, that's okay. Some disagree -- especially Moskvina's assertion about innovation. As great as G&G were, they did nothing to push the practice technically or artistically. Even Hamilton called them text book. M&D changed the slate.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minou View Post
    Actually, there *were* Internet message boards in the late 1980s and early 1990s. However, there was no World Wide Web and no browser interfaces. If you dig deep enough, you can find them on the web.

    I have seen the comparison video where the poster makes her case for G&G. It's an editorial; and, that's okay. Some disagree -- especially Moskvina's assertion about innovation. As great as G&G were, they did nothing to push the practice technically or artistically. Even Hamilton called them text book. M&D changed the slate.
    I loved both pairs, but I really loved the way M&D created new and exciting moves. Until then, most of pairs skating was just cookie cutter, and G&G did that style perfectly. It wasn't until they turned pro that they started experimenting.

  14. #114

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    M&D made pairs skating incredibly hot and exciting.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    For the 1994 LP, I heard that their coaches had initially chosen Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake music, but M&D said they wanted to skate to Rach2, and they did great. I have wondered at times how the Swan Lake program might have looked like. I don't know what part of Swan Lake they would have skated, but Rach2 seemed so perfect for them!
    Well, here they are skating to other famous swan music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIPi1ugXhE

    While it's refreshingly free of arm flapping, I don't think they seemed really engaged with the music. I think they were probably smart to go with the more powerful Rach2.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Well, here they are skating to other famous swan music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxIPi1ugXhE

    While it's refreshingly free of arm flapping, I don't think they seemed really engaged with the music. I think they were probably smart to go with the more powerful Rach2.

    They did a better job with it the previous year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLPTvLQ8_mw .

    Wasn't it an emergency switch back after criticism of their short at Europeans in 1991? I'm still hoping someone will post to You Tube or DM.

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