2012 London Olympic Games - Day Three - General Thread

[oleada]

And Colombia has many more options, in weightlifting and cycling, not forget about the women´s triple jump!

It could be a great games for Colombia indeed

Yes, I'm really excited. Before this games, we'd only won 12 Olympics medal (1 Gold) ever. The country is doing well economically, so more money is being invested in sports, although the amount is still woeful and the directives are terfible. But it's progress The goal was to qualify 100 athletes and they exceeded that.

Mariana Pajon is THE gold medal hope and I can't imagine the snark if she doesn't win or even medal.

[allezfred]

South Korean Fencer Protest

The South Korea fencer Shin Lam was in floods of tears at the ExCeL arena night after arguably the biggest controversy of the Olympics so far.

The 25-year-old thought she was through to the final of the women's epee when, to her horror and that of her coach, Shim Jaesung, the clock was reset from zero to one second.

And when the action resumed the German Britta Heidemann, gold medallist four years ago, scored a do-or-die hit that appeared to have given her a place in the final against Ukraine's Yana Shemyakana.

[Lorac]

South Korean Fencer Protest

I'm still astounded that they had to lodge money for the appeal to be valid

[reckless]

That does beg for a question. Thanks for explaining!

I just went back and watched the end of the semifinal. Basically, what happened was there was a bit of an exchange where the clock started at :04 and hit :01 before the first simultaneous touch.

The second simultaneous touch was a lunge by Heidemann. (BTW, my time stamp on the video replay showed :01 elapsed on the lunge.)

The third simultaneous touch was another lunge, with Shin trying to lean back. (Again, the time stamp on my replay showed :01 elapsed on the lunge.) For some weird reason, seven seconds after the touch (according to my time stamp), the official clock moved from :01 to :00.

Then they put the second back on the clock over the Korean's objections. This time, there is a clash of epees before Beidemann can lunge. But even after that exchange, the official clock is still at :01. (My time stamp shows the call to start occurs just as the clock on the NBC video goes from 48:08 to 48:09, and the touch does not occur until after the clock hits 48:10, so that touch took more than a full second.)

Since it should have been possible to check the video time stamps, I don't understand how that could have been considered timely.

[mazzy]

But physically, how could a fencer cover the distance from the starting point to the opponent in less than one second? They start at least eight feet apart. And even if they managed to do it once, is it really possible that it happened three separate times, not to mention that less than a second elapsed before the German made the final touch to win on the fourth attempt?

German tv actually measured the last attack. They came up with 0.86 seconds. From my memory it was the longest of the actions.

But it does beg the question why they don't use tenths of a second at the end of a fencing match. I know basketball switches to tenths in the last second of a quarter to prevent slow clock starts and ensure that time is counted.

I'm not involved enough in fencing to suggest what they should/should not do. Sometimes measuring up to the smallest increment technically possible creates more trouble than it solves. There's no chance that the time stopper can be precise to tenths of a second anyway and chances are that the times will be even more off than they're now. There is a reason why athletics don't measure jumps/throws in milimetres & swimming does not go down to thousands.

[oleada]

Germany breaks their medal drought with a silver in the women's fencing.

[Skittl1321]

I'm still astounded that they had to lodge money for the appeal to be valid

I really want to know more about that. How much money? Is it returned if the appeal is valid? Who gets it?


I also think it is unfair that the media keeps saying "refused to leave the [court]*" like she was being petulant when it seems that she can't leave the [court] or else that means she has accepted the judges decision. If a protest was going on, it seems like she had to stay.


*can't think of what they call the "playing surface"

[l'etoile]

South Korean Fencer Protest

Thanks for the article!

Another official came on to assist as she dissolved into tears again. Now there were whistles and boos from the crowd as she was led off, although the decision had still not been announced.

How awful

[reckless]

Thanks for the article!


How awful

Not true. I just rewatched her leave. Most of the crowd gave her a standing ovation.

[reckless]

I really want to know more about that. How much money? Is it returned if the appeal is valid? Who gets it?


I also think it is unfair that the media keeps saying "refused to leave the [court]*" like she was being petulant when it seems that she can't leave the [court] or else that means she has accepted the judges decision. If a protest was going on, it seems like she had to stay.


*can't think of what they call the "playing surface"

It's the piste.

All of the reports I saw mentioned that she had to stay to protest. Also, they announced multiple times in the arena that she was acting in accordance with the rules and asked the audience to respect her.

[Skittl1321]

It's the piste.

All of the reports I saw mentioned that she had to stay to protest.

Thanks

All the early reports I read just say she refused to leave, and was in tears. All the ones now have updated that she was required to stay to protest

[Lorac]

Thanks for the article!


How awful

I think the crowd were booing the officials - not the fencer - she appeared to get a standing ovation.

[SHARPIE]

Snarky volunteer

PML!

Bahahahaha!!!!!!!!!


I seem to have a tribute to Mitch Gaylord going on on my FB page - As you do!

[reckless]

I just looked at the rules from US Fencing and there does appear to be nothing about rounding up time. The timekeeper is supposed to start the clock when the referee calls the start.

And even if the fourth and final touch was actually .86 of a second, the three prior touches that took place after the clock hit one second had to collectively take more than :14 of a second. It also doesn't explain why, after the third touch, several seconds elapsed and then the clock moved from :01 to :00.

[l'etoile]

Oh, I knew that the booing was for the officials, not the player I was stating how awful this situation is for Shin.

[Skittl1321]

I figured out the "sum of money" thing.

Every appeal must be accompanied by the deposit of a guaranty of US$80, or its equivalent in another currency; this sum may be confiscated for the benefit of the
FIE if the appeal is rejected on the grounds that it is ‘frivolous’; this decision will be taken by the juridical authority responsible for hearing the appeal. However, appeals against the decisions of the Referee do not require the deposit of the guaranty mentioned above

[mazzy]

And even if the fourth and final touch was actually .86 of a second, the three prior touches that took place after the clock hit one second had to collectively take more than :14 of a second.

Of course, the total of the actions took more than 1 sec. However, to determine that you would need to measure in finer increments which is not done. You basically have a zero/one situation: either the second was used up in one action or it was not. In the second case, a whole second remains and the game can be repeated ad infinitum.

It also doesn't explain why, after the third touch, several seconds elapsed and then the clock moved from :01 to :00.

No idea. Apparently, the judge decided that it was a timekeeping mistake. It seems that the Koreans would have had to refuse to continue fencing if they wanted to challenge that. Technicalities being technical, I guess.
From a purely spectator pov, Heidemann has the better claim IMO. She did score one more point than her opponent in the time given by the judge, while Shin would basically be the profiteer of a coin toss.

I also loved that Heidemann actually went for the final point in the OT of the final despite having the advantage on her side.

[tralfamadorian]

^^ I don't understand, why did they say the Koreans were supposed to pay then, wasn't this appeal against a referee's decision?

[mazzy]

^^ I don't understand, why did they say the Koreans were supposed to pay then, wasn't this appeal against a referee's decision?

Standard practice in most sports to prevent feds from appealing every single decision a judge makes. This way only appeals that actually have a decent chance of success will be submitted.

[homura]

Image of the Day: The People's Champion - South Korean Fencer Shin A Lam
https://twitter.com/ESPNOlympics/sta...337217/photo/1