Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 53
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,843
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Rank the Jumping Technique of These Senior Ladies

    So we got some really interesting responses on the skating skills of the senior ladies, so I'm wondering where you guys would place the same group of skaters (with a few others) in terms of jumping technique. So here's the list and rank away!

    1. Miki Ando
    2. Mao Asada
    3. Yuna Kim
    4. Kimmie Meissner
    5. Yukari Nakano
    6. Carolina Kostner
    7. Sarah Meier
    8. Emily Hughes
    9. Joannie Rochette
    10. Ashley Wagner
    11. Alissa Czisny
    12. Mirai Nagasu
    13. Akiko Suzuki
    14. Kiira Korpi
    15. Michelle Kwan
    16. Irina Slutskaya

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,770
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    So we got some really interesting responses on the skating skills of the senior ladies, so I'm wondering where you guys would place the same group of skaters (with a few others) in terms of jumping technique. So here's the list and rank away!

    1. Miki Ando
    2. Mao Asada
    3. Yuna Kim
    4. Kimmie Meissner
    5. Yukari Nakano
    6. Carolina Kostner
    7. Sarah Meier
    8. Emily Hughes
    9. Joannie Rochette
    10. Ashley Wagner
    11. Alissa Czisny
    12. Mirai Nagasu
    13. Akiko Suzuki
    14. Kiira Korpi
    15. Michelle Kwan
    16. Irina Slutskaya
    If we're talking pure technique, not consistency:
    Excellent
    1)Kostner (when she had the lutz, anyway...)
    2)Rochette
    3)Kim
    4)Ando
    5)Slutskaya
    Good
    6)Kwan (iffy lutz)
    7)Suzuki (iffy lutz)
    8)Asada (flutz, weak salchow)
    9)Nagasu (iffy lutz, salchow MIA)
    10)Wagner (flutz, sometimes toe-axels)
    11)Meier (lip, no loop)
    Could be better
    12)Meissner (lip, toe-axel)
    13)Hughes (Loop went MIA, heavy landings)
    Sketchy
    14)Nakano (iffy flip AND lutz, wrap, loop went MIA)
    15)Korpi (her jump arch is very odd the toe and loop are her only jumps that don't look strange to me)
    16)Czisny (no explanation necessary)

    I feel good about my top five in that order, but within the other sub groups it's actually pretty interchangeable for me based on what aspects you prioritize.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Roses are red, violets are blue, this poem is dumb and so are you.
    Age
    35
    Posts
    3,189
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    1. Irina Slutskaya
    2. Joannie Rochette
    3. Michelle Kwan
    4. Yuna Kim
    5. Carolina Kostner
    6. Miki Ando
    7. Yukari Nakano
    8. Ashley Wagner
    9. Akiko Suzuki
    10. Mao Asada
    11. Mirai Nagasu
    12. Kimmie Meissner
    13. Sarah Meier
    14. Alissa Czisny
    15. Kiira Korpi
    16. Emily Hughes

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,872
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3930
    I'm not sure how to approach it with skaters like Kwan or Slutskaya who had tremendously long careers during which their jumping skills varied a lot. Even aside from that, some of the skaters were fabulous at everything but, say, one jump. Rochette had a lot of years where she was quite frankly not good, though she certainly went out on a high note.

    I guess I'd start by throwing out the ladies who simply have no measurable success at one of the jumps.

    Denise Beilmann isn't on the list -- shouldn't she be?

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    401
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm only going to do top 10 or 11

    Top 5 (in alphabetical order) is no doubt
    Miki Ando, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Joannie Rochette and Irina Slutskaya

    Miki, Joannie, and Irina have all of the triples sans 3A. Lots of power and good technique in the jump. While Yuna and Carolina are missing the loop and lutz respectively, the quality of their other jumps make up for that missing jump type. Most of their jumps you can use as textbook examples. Height, speed, distance, takeoff, landing...

    Almost at the top
    Michelle Kwan, Mirai Nagasu, Akiko Suzuki

    They mostly have the same technique on the lutz. They get a slight reputation for flutzing: when they don't flutz, the tech panel still calls it. All other jumps are there though. [Re Mirai's Salchow: it was a beauty in juniors, but Carroll left it out of her programs]. Mirai has the superior loop. Suzuki has that killer 2A-3T. Michelle has the consistency. They all have lovely edges and positions on their landings.

    End of top 10
    Yukari Nakano, Ashley Wagner

    Yukari's wrap didn't bother me. I am still amazed at how she gets the rotation in her jumps considering the angular momentum and radial separation her leg gets. I can see why people think her flip/lutz takeoffs are iffy if you're distracted by the leg though. Can't forget 3A! Ashley has a lot of power in her full arsenal of jumps. The flutz is pretty obvious though. She fixed her toe axel though.

    11. Mao Asada
    She has the axel, flip and loop. She had a few good 3A. She flutzes. Loops are pretty nice. Pops her salchow. Her toe is okay. But she has nice light landings. Her jumps are more impressive than no-kneebend-Meier, thud-landing-Hughes, pre-rotated-salchow&toe=axel-Meissner, effortless-fall-Czisny and toe-loop-only-Korpii.

    I actually feel pretty mean typing this because I can't jump but it is my opinion. Maybe I was too critical :/

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Kostner #1 Fan
    Posts
    436
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    1: Carolina Kostner (except lutz, but her other jumps are textbook)
    2: Joannie Rochette
    3: Yuna Kim (exception of loop and salchow)
    4: Irina Slutskaya
    5: Miki Ando
    6: Michelle Kwan
    7: Suzuki
    8: Wagner (flutz)
    9: Meier
    10: Asada (good technique on axel, but nothing else)
    11: Nagasu
    12: Hughes (odd technique but managed to pull of some good jumps sometimes)
    13: Meissner (toe-axel, DOWNGRADES !!!!!!! )
    14: Nakano (huge wrap)
    15: Korpi (hunch-back)
    16: Czisny (TERRIBLE)

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    at overrating Rochette's jumps.
    I don't see anything special from her jumps(including 2A) except 3S&3Lo.
    Even her 3S&3Lo are not that excellent.
    Rochette's all jumps except 3Lz are only sound.
    Last edited by t.mann; 07-26-2012 at 11:11 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    206
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Mao Asada ( tight air positioning, fast rotation, good flow, great height, smooth and steady landing, having showcased all the jumps including the 3A and several 3-3, the only thing left to say is a natural talented jumper)

    Miki Ando ( fast rotation, tight air positioning, good height and the jump display she has showed also indicates what a natural talented jumper she is)

    Yuna kim ( great jumps in terms of air positioning, height, flow but lack of loop, and inconsistent salcow)

    Suzuki Akiko (tight air positioning, great flow, good height...)

    Yukari Nakano ( wrap leg)

    Carolina Kostner ( just a few years ago i really hated her jumps and had to cringe EVERYTIME she had to jump, but this past season she greatly improved but I am not fan of watered down jump content)

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    51
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    To me, nobody really equals Yuna in the speed and height of her jumps. Both Michelle and Dick Button seemed to agree with that assessment in their remarks at the 2009 Worlds:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccVEn8Jb_18

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,897
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5459
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Butz View Post
    If we're talking pure technique, not consistency:
    Excellent
    1)Kostner (when she had the lutz, anyway...)
    2)Rochette
    3)Kim
    4)Ando
    5)Slutskaya
    Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

    And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    97
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

    And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list.
    I agree with all of this, especially w/ Miki. Her jumps are good in the air, but a lot of her landings are questionable. Her loop entry has always been ... different?

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    I guess I'd start by throwing out the ladies who simply have no measurable success at one of the jumps.

    Denise Beilmann isn't on the list -- shouldn't she be?
    Would you make different "throw them out" criteria for different eras?

    Biellmann didn't do all the triple jumps that we've expected since the 1990s, but she did more than those she was competing against. Well, she did one harder one than anyone else was doing at the time, and I believe if

    If you're going to include Biellmann, I think you need to include Zayak . . . and then Ito . . . as well. And other jumping trendsetters from other points in women's skating history. But that opens up whole other sets of questions that I don't think the poster of this thread was interested in.

    I didn't love Biellmann's technique. She had a very weird arm position in the air.

  13. #13
    Loving on babies!
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Twin heaven!
    Posts
    11,652
    vCash
    1570
    Rep Power
    15573
    Don't know how anyone can be ranked at or near the top when they don't have all 5 triple jumps a female elite skater is supposed to have. Doesn't matter if their jumping technique on 3 or 4 of the triples is "textbook"; to me, if they can't do them all properly, it's not sound technique.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    one two three almost
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,522
    vCash
    1000
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Don't know how anyone can be ranked at or near the top when they don't have all 5 triple jumps a female elite skater is supposed to have. Doesn't matter if their jumping technique on 3 or 4 of the triples is "textbook"; to me, if they can't do them all properly, it's not sound technique.
    However if you restrict the discussion to on those on the list who have all the jumps with correct technique, then you end up with Joannie Rochette.
    I want to thank you Lord for being with me so far this day. With your help, I have not been inpatient, lost my temper been grumpy or envious of anyone. But I will be getting out of bed in a minute and I think I will really need your help then. Amen

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,770
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Trouble with putting Ando in this list is that she had a lip and then took it out completely so I think she belongs in teh group of "Good" with other skaters that have questionable edges.

    And dare I say that Kim with no 3 Loop also needs to be in the good rather than excellent list.
    All I can say for my own list is that I didn't base it on consistency so much as how the jumps looked when they did them. Miki did do a real 3f for at least two seasons and many of them had excellent height. Yuna did do several beautiful triple loop jumps here and there. I saw her practicing them at Worlds in 09, and though she didn't do it in her program, I saw her land FIVE gorgeous ones in a row like they were nothing.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,583
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I would like an explanation as to what's wrong with Czisny's technique. Besides the fact that she falls all the time. When she does jumps cleanly, they look nice.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    663
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I would like an explanation as to what's wrong with Czisny's technique. Besides the fact that she falls all the time. When she does jumps cleanly, they look nice.
    ITA. I do think that she tends to under rotate at times but when they are landed, I think her jumps are actually very pretty. I am a Mao Fan but Yu Na's jumps are amazing. The toe jumps have perfect arch, speed and power to them. To me her jumps almost dont suite her feminine demeanor they are so strong.

    Mao these days has beautiful jumps. Sato has done a great job at getting her to blend her technique into the rest of her skating. I dont think that her lutz will get fixed though especially since the axel is still her focus. She was quite the jumper before doing it right became so dang important LOL.

    Kostner... i gotta give it to her. Her jumps are just beautiful. She's harnessed her talent and really jumps well.

    Ando to me Is a natural jumper like Slutskaya. I could watch her jump all day

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    4,335
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2276
    Quote Originally Posted by JanetB View Post
    However if you restrict the discussion to on those on the list who have all the jumps with correct technique, then you end up with Joannie Rochette.
    ...and if you added a sixth triple, you'd end up with Tonya Harding and Midori Ito. Still the best jumpers ever, it's amazing what they accomplished so long ago.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,770
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    I would like an explanation as to what's wrong with Czisny's technique. Besides the fact that she falls all the time. When she does jumps cleanly, they look nice.
    Well, she lips and even when she was doing the sal many years ago it was cheated and awkward. Aside from that, her rotation is somewhat slow, she has low height, and enters her jumps without much speed. Her air position is usually a bit tilted causing her to land a little forward and usually has difficulty completing the rotation.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,243
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    Some skaters can naturally jump very high because of their body type and can also rotate quickly. So they are able to complete harder jumps more easily, at least some of the time. (They may be inconsistent at these jumps if they're relying on physical gifts and skimping on technique.)

    Both those skills can be learned and improved, but ultimately the skater's physical makeup is going to limit the maximum height or rotational speed she can achieve.

    Other skaters do not have the fast-twitch muscles or body proportions necessary to jump as high or rotate as quickly. They have less room for error. In order to do triple jumps at all, they need to have better technique than the skaters who are more athletically gifted in the relevant areas.

    So are we asking who had the biggest, most impressive jumps, or who had the best technique?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •