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  1. #41
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    My rankings:

    1. Plushenko
    2. Lambiel
    3. Takahashi
    4. Joubert
    5. Yagudin
    6. Kulik
    7. Urmanov
    8. Stojko
    9. Chan
    10. Eldredge
    11. Lysacek
    12. Buttle

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Because of overmarking, Chan's many "medals" should be considered as gifts from the judges. That's a factor can't be ignored.
    I would suggest posters who don't agree with marks given to Chan in the past few seasons to watch the ISU videos which explain various PCS criteria. He did indeed match most of the criteria for each PCS component.

    Someone provided the link in another thread. Would someone be kind enough to post it again?

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I would suggest posters who don't agree with marks given to Chan in the past few seasons to watch the ISU videos which explain various PCS criteria. He did indeed match most of the criteria for each PCS component.

    Someone provided the link in another thread. Would someone be kind enough to post it again?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6up...=ULJfB13pZRcus

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I would suggest posters who don't agree with marks given to Chan in the past few seasons to watch the ISU videos which explain various PCS criteria. He did indeed match most of the criteria for each PCS component.
    It is possible to disagree with Chan's marks for valid reasons and not out of ignorance, you know

    I think part of the problem that some people have with Chan's scores are actually issues with the scoring system - for instance, how he gets rewarded despite making mistakes because he has, say, difficult jump entries; some fans think the quality of the jumps should override the quality of the entries. The IJS also tends to value the parts over the sum, and I think Chan is a good example of this sort of skating. But what the system emphasizes is not Chan's fault, and I don't think it should count as overscoring when he's simply playing by the rules. If someone has an issue with what the system rewards, it should be presented as such and not as "Chan is overscored".

    The other issue, for me at least, is that Chan absolutely ticks off a lot of bullet points for high GOEs and PCS - but I don't think he ticks off quite as many as he's being given credit for. So in that regard, I have no problem saying that he is often overscored.

    I do think he should have finished ahead of Ilia Kulik in this game, however.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    It is possible to disagree with Chan's marks for valid reasons and not out of ignorance, you know

    I think part of the problem that some people have with Chan's scores are actually issues with the scoring system - for instance, how he gets rewarded despite making mistakes because he has, say, difficult jump entries; some fans think the quality of the jumps should override the quality of the entries. The IJS also tends to value the parts over the sum, and I think Chan is a good example of this sort of skating. But what the system emphasizes is not Chan's fault, and I don't think it should count as overscoring when he's simply playing by the rules. If someone has an issue with what the system rewards, it should be presented as such and not as "Chan is overscored".

    The other issue, for me at least, is that Chan absolutely ticks off a lot of bullet points for high GOEs and PCS - but I don't think he ticks off quite as many as he's being given credit for. So in that regard, I have no problem saying that he is often overscored.

    I do think he should have finished ahead of Ilia Kulik in this game, however.
    Oh sure, I am not saying everyone who objected to his scores is ignorant. But the videos do explain a lot of why he usually scores so highly on PCS. IMO, as much as one extra rotation on a jump that happens in one split second over a 4:40 program does not, and should not, significantly affect PCS, neither should a fall that also happens in one split second over a 4:40 program. If people think a fall should cost more than just a mandatory -1, that's fine, but you will find that Chan will still have won many of the titles or medals that he won even if the mandatory deduction was increased to -2 or even -3. The videos will explain why perhaps he is just THAT good a skater.

    On TES, remember back when Buttle and Lysacek won Worlds, people complained about how the system didn't reward difficult jumps enough and did not encourage the athletic side to be pushed forward. And now they do, and that's why he is scoring high on TES, because he always attempts 2 quads and 7 triples and almost always rotates them.

    Anyway, thanks npavel for the link.
    Last edited by Marco; 07-27-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Because of overmarking, Chan's many "medals" should be considered as gifts from the judges. That's a factor can't be ignored.

    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength. I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era... and in 2006, Joubert would be the winner if there weren't qualifying rounds. Any of his "wins" and "medals" are not impressive.
    Here we go again, if someone you don't appreciate wins, it should be considered 'gifts from judges'. It works both ways.
    If Lambiel only had quads to rely on to win, then all quad jumpers should win.

  7. #47
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    Chan should have placed 2nd behind Yagudin.

  8. #48
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    competitive survivors-plush, joubert, dai. & look at all the other top men they had to compete with!! i give my picks extra bonus "eys they can!" points too-& thanks so much guys for so many years of great skating! xoxoxo

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