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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskatefan View Post
    I'm not going to rank any of the skaters here, but I wouldn't have included Daisuke, Patrick, and Brian J. in this poll since they are still competing.
    It's hard to know who is still competing and who isn't. Lysacek and Plushenko say they're competing this season, so I would have had to exclude them too. And, it's certainly possible that one of these five skaters will announce his retirement without doing another competition.

    As it is, all anyone could do is rank them based on what they've done so far.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Buttle - very poor jumping abilities and consistency
    I'm not sure I would say BUttle had very poor jumping abilities. Ok he didn't have a quad, but his other triples were pretty strong with some issues on the 3A at times, but I think that's covered by consistency more than poor jumping abilities - his technique was pretty sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    chan - always overmarked
    As others have pointed out, the overmarking is dont by the judges not the skater themselves so I'm not sure criticising a skater for what the judges do is particularly helpful when discussing their skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    lambiel - quite undeserving records(medals) for a man without the 3A
    Lambiel had the triple axel for several seasons and then struggled with it later on, but made up for it with the quad to compensate. He included a brilliant 3A in his 2005 SP when he won worlds.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Buttle - very poor jumping abilities and consistency
    chan - always overmarked
    lambiel - quite undeserving records(medals) for a man without the 3A
    You're obviously even newer to figure skating than I am, and/or have no idea about the many elements that it consists of, including the technical elements and qualities. Even if Lambiel truly didn't have that 3A, it's just one of many elements. There are other skaters who don't have Lambiel's skating skills, have much weaker spins, not so good transitions (all part of technique), not to mention choreography, musicality, presentation and so on, and are still considered great skaters. As for Buttle and Chan, that was also answered by antmanb.

  4. #24
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    Alexei Yagudin is the BEST

  5. #25
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    My ranking:

    Chan
    Takahashi
    Lambiel
    Lysacek
    Buttle
    Kulik
    Urmanov
    Joubert
    Yagudin
    Plushenko
    Eldredge
    Stojko

  6. #26
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    In terms of my enjoyment of their overall skating/choreography/on ice personality (not teknik, medals, etc.)

    Alexei Yagudin
    Daisuke Takahashi
    Patrick Chan
    Jeffrey Buttle
    Stéphane Lambiel
    Ilia Kulik
    Evgeni Plushenko
    Todd Eldredge
    Evan Lysacek
    Brian Joubert
    Elvis Stojko
    Alexei Urmanov
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    I'm not sure I would say BUttle had very poor jumping abilities. Ok he didn't have a quad, but his other triples were pretty strong with some issues on the 3A at times,

    As others have pointed out, the overmarking is dont by the judges not the skater themselves so

    Lambiel had the triple axel for several seasons and then struggled with it later on, but made up for it with the quad to compensate. He included a brilliant 3A in his 2005 SP when he won worlds.
    No quad, inconsistent 3A -- that's enough to be called a poor jumper in normal senses.

    Because of overmarking, Chan's many "medals" should be considered as gifts from the judges. That's a factor can't be ignored.

    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength. I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era... and in 2006, Joubert would be the winner if there weren't qualifying rounds. Any of his "wins" and "medals" are not impressive.

  8. #28
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    My personal ranking:

    - Yagudin
    - Kulik
    - Takahashi
    - Lambiel
    - Plushenko
    - Joubert
    - Urmanov
    - Buttle

    - Stojko
    - Eldredge
    - Chan
    - Lysacek
    Last edited by Zokko!; 07-25-2012 at 07:51 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength. I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era... and in 2006, Joubert would be the winner if there weren't qualifying rounds. Any of his "wins" and "medals" are not impressive.
    Eh, that's really a sign of weakness to rely on quads and most of time he had two of them in his FP, one of them in combination. Poor guy, no choice...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    This was a BLASPHEMY !!! :
    I wont lie, I voted on every voting round to Yagudin
    ... obviously in vain ...

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    In terms of my enjoyment of their overall skating/choreography/on ice personality (not teknik, medals, etc.)

    Alexei Yagudin
    Daisuke Takahashi
    Patrick Chan
    Jeffrey Buttle
    Stéphane Lambiel
    Ilia Kulik
    Evgeni Plushenko
    Todd Eldredge
    Evan Lysacek
    Brian Joubert
    Elvis Stojko
    Alexei Urmanov
    I like this list so much!

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength. I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era... and in 2006, Joubert would be the winner if there weren't qualifying rounds. Any of his "wins" and "medals" are not impressive.
    Lambiel did quads, not "quads", and he wasn't relying just on them.

    2005 Worlds were indeed pretty awful.

    The part about Joubert and 2006 Worlds is true. Joubert skated really well all three times he won silver.

  13. #33
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    I don't hate or bash North American skaters, but to me Todd, Evan and Chan are zzzzzzzzz. Can't help it. Can't be anything but happy when they are votes out. I see their qualities on different aspects of their skating, but they are still zzzzzzzzz.
    Boitano on the other hand...sigh, love him so much!

    I couldn't vote in the last round. It was impossible to choose between my two favourite skaters ever.

  14. #34
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    Was my write in vote counted?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskatefan View Post
    I am appalled at the level of hate/disrespect toward North American skaters here in general, and am sick of the merciless bashing against skaters like Todd & Evan, etc. Whether you like them or not, they are accomplished skaters with great work ethics (OK, I'll admit I'm not obsessed with quads, and could care less about them - there are so many more elements to a program than one blasted jump). Give me great spins (not contorted ones), Russian Split Jumps, music that a skater works into a memorable program, and I'm a happy camper.
    ITA. I was watching Todd's 2001 LP at Worlds, and have to say I was surprisingly impressed. Everything was done with such high quality. The jumps and spins were textbook, and I loved the huge death drop and Russian splits towards the end. The program may not be particularly sophisticated or innovative, but it was effective and skated thoughtfully. The program was backloaded too - he did the triple axels and triple lutz later on in the program - we hardly see this kind of construction. TBH Todd's performances at the 2001 Worlds were pretty comparable to what Lysacek did at the Olympics, and probably even better. Evan had the edge in transitions (although it was under CoP), but Todd's choreography was much more effective. Todd was really undermarked - I'd put him ahead of Buttle and Joubert, and compare with Lysacek.

    My rankings:
    1. Yagudin
    2. Plushenko
    3. Takahashi
    4. Lambiel
    5. Kulik
    6. Chan
    7. Stojko
    8. Eldredge
    9. Lysacek
    10. Joubert
    11. Buttle
    12. Urmanov

    A couple notes:
    - As much as I love Takahashi, it's ridiculous that Plushenko gets voted out so early. This isn't objective at all.
    - Chan may have dominated so far this quadrennial, but I don't think it was merited.
    - Buttle was a one-hit wonder and almost incapable of skating clean LP. The only major time he really put together two good programs was 2008 Worlds.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipforsynchro View Post
    Was my write in vote counted?
    Only in your dreams.

    Now run along and help Jeffrey Buttle 2.0 Michal Březina break his potato's damnation.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Only in your dreams.

    Now run along and help Jeffrey Buttle 2.0 Michal Březina break his potato's damnation.
    Michal is not Buttle 2.0. Michal is way more attractive

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    It's hard to know who is still competing and who isn't. Lysacek and Plushenko say they're competing this season, so I would have had to exclude them too. And, it's certainly possible that one of these five skaters will announce his retirement without doing another competition.
    Plushenko has won nationals and europeans last season, so I assume he has already come back.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength. I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era...
    He still was the best in the so-called weak field (because weak really is relative ). If you're better than the rest you deserve to win.
    I don't recall 2005 worlds, so maybe he wouldn't have won a year before or a year later with that performance. But he didn't skate that performance a year before or a year later. He skated it then. At that point. And was better than anyone else. Or at least the judges thought so.

    and in 2006, Joubert would be the winner if there weren't qualifying rounds. Any of his "wins" and "medals" are not impressive.
    But there are qualifying rounds. How many skaters would have won if there hadn't been figures? How many competitions would Sasha have won had there not been a 4 minute LP? It's kind of ridiculous to say if there hadn't been a part of a competition because it was there and if Joubert messed up the qualifying round then he messed up. Period. Joubert had to skate as many portions of the competition as anyone else.
    (And you seem to forget that Joubert has struggled to skate clean as well. He's a fighter, no doubt about it and when he's on, he can be very impressive. But has he truly delivered so many more clean skates that resulted in a medal win than Lambiel?)

    And there is more to skating than jumps, as someone else pointed out. Yes, I do prefer a program that is skated cleanly but in the end it's not the jumps which, for me, personally, make a program memorable. It's the program.
    I can acknowledge great jumping abilities and I find Plushenko's technical content impressive. Doesn't mean I find his programs memorable.
    I know though that for me, Lambiel's Flamenco was one of the best and I will never forget the moment he finished his Cirque du Soleil program at Europeans 2002. He might not have had the jumping contents of a Yagudin but boy, was that a program!

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    No quad, inconsistent 3A -- that's enough to be called a poor jumper in normal senses.
    I disagree, many skaters (dare I most) don't have consistent quads, that still leaves 6 other triple jumps, and you're saying Buttles inconsistency (note not inablility to do, rather inconsistency) condemns his other jumps? That doesn't make sense - look at his technique, he had great technique and you said he had "very poor jumping abilities" which IMO is not true and isn't based on sound logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Because of overmarking, Chan's many "medals" should be considered as gifts from the judges. That's a factor can't be ignored.
    Ignored when considering what? A discussion of his skills, his jumping ability? How does the judges over marking him have any relevance to his actual technique, or, in fact, anything to do with him and things he can control? I agree he has been overmarked, and I agree that it is scandalous that judges do it, but the judges are responsible for that not Chan himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Lambiel had no choice but to rely on his "quads". That was the sigh of his weakness, not strength.
    Then there's a fault in your logic. Buttle didn't have a quad and it's seen as a weakness, Labiel does and it's also seen as a weakness? You can't have it both ways, it's one or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    I think 2005 worlds was the lowest level competition for men since Kur Browning's era
    2005 was not great but you specifically said Lambiel didn't have a triple axel and I was pointing you to a programme where he not only did it but did a really good one!

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