The most "unbeloved" Olympic Champion(s) - what do you think?

[Ziggy]

Are you saying Lipinski should have placed lower than 2nd in SP?

I was talking about Salt Lake City SP placements.

[query5]

the thing i have against salt lake is this,
the U. S. Judges and other judges JUDGE michelle as a fall which at the time wasn't techincially a fall, however when
sasha did the exact same mistakes at 2006. they didn't count either as fall and she stayed in 2nd.

for me the only reason they (especially) u.s. judge in my opinion is this they decided ahead of time didn't want michelle to win and counted trip as a fall and she was 3-4 in free if michelle would have stayed 2nd in free she would have won.
sarah would have won free michelle overall, but i know and don't blame russia for putting irina ahead but the u.s judge could have gave michelle the doubt-but u.s. judges internationally very seldom (in my opinion)gave her the doubt. she would had gold.
they (u.s.) knew we wanted her to win, but U.S judges (expected and demanded only MIChelle skate perfect ) if she didn't no wins. she didnt she not only didn't win but place 3rd. which is fine, but considering how they and still grade certain skaters if unfair at best.
cause i still can't figure out why sasha fell, and trip got 2nd in 2006 same mistakes as michelle did in 2002.
they did overlook sarah urs in 2002, and tara in 1998. not michelle which is my big beef.
and i not going to mention race

[Triple Butz]

sasha did the exact same mistakes at 2006. they didn't count either as fall and she stayed in 2nd.
and i not going to mention race

I don't know why I bother, but:
http://www.la84foundation.org/6oic/O...ureSkating.pdf
"Sasha Cohen: Falls: 1.00"

they did overlook sarah urs in 2002, and tara in 1998. not michelle which is my big beef.
and i not going to mention race

Michelle won the sp in 2002 with a major cheat on her 3 flip jump. Not that I disagreed with her placement necessarily, but get it straight.

[dawnie]

and i not going to mention race

Yes, the judges were CLEARLY racist. Especially that Joe Inman who has NEVER given Kwan a 6.0.

[escaflowne9282]

Well it appears Hughes has won.

[query5]

only when Kwan skated clean, perfect did she get the 6.0's.
any little mistake is was a 5.8 or 5.9

however sasha fell got a 6.0
sarah however i don't ever got one if she did i don't remember it.

what i am stating is kwan had to skate perfect, no or the least amount of mistakes from the top ladies because if she had 1 mistake more she lost, the other ladies could have more mistakes than her and still win.

if in 2002 michelle was 2nd she would have won the ogm,
more people could have handled it.

sarah skated clean no noticable mistakes, michelle and irina had noticable mistakes.

did the judges notice the other ladies mistakes as well/quick as they wanted to notice michelle's, i don't know but i doubt it. during the 2001/2002 season the talk was how sarah was coming up and michelle non-coach. the hinting i got was sarah was more inline for the ogm than michelle due to michelle non-coach.
was the racist let see chinese lady in 1998, repeated same thing, not american just chinese, she is of chinese descent.

blah blah blah all you want the fact is it was a deal and the fact is they did not call the mistakes correctly. the way to let someone win is to fact count a mistake harsher than what is should be called and more leniently if you want that person to win, overcall /undercall jumps--always has been always will be
sasha fall called a trip, michelle called a fall when technically at that time wasn't. everyone was made know that fact
still are doing it. just have to pay closer attention

[falling_dance]

only when Kwan skated clean, perfect did she get the 6.0's.
any little mistake is was a 5.8 or 5.9

however sasha fell got a 6.0
sarah however i don't ever got one if she did i don't remember it.

Because I heart trivia: Kwan got a 6.0 on the second mark from one judge for her 1999 Skate America FS, in which she fell on a triple flip. At US Nats, she received two 6.0s for her SotBS FS in 2001 and four for her Bolero free skate in 2005, though she doubled both jumps of a planned 3-3 in the first case and finished after the end of the music with just five triples (one 3z, no loop) in the latter.

[michiruwater]

Um... so the fact that he was an OGM and won absolutely nothing else and absolutely no ever talks about him ever didn't make you at least suspect he might be "the most unbeloved" vs some of the recent skaters who while hated by some are loved by others and the debate rages on and on and on,.... ?

Um, no, because that still meant that I had no idea who he was? How can I possibly vote for someone I don't know exists?

Plus all of the news about him being arrested for human slave trafficing was just a few years ago, and the "Tim Wood wuz robbed" story comes up every few years, so..

6 years ago, precisely, which is exactly how long I've been a figure skating fan, thanks to Sasha Cohen (as you can see, I joined in October 2006). I have no recollection of having read any threads about it. I wouldn't know who Tim Wood was, either, if I wasn't from Michigan. I don't recall ever reading about him besides this thread.

[satchelpooch318]

Because I heart trivia: Kwan got a 6.0 on the second mark from one judge for her 1999 Skate America FS, in which she fell on a triple flip. At US Nats, she received two 6.0s for her SoTBS FS in 2001 and four for her Bolero free skate in 2005, though she doubled both jumps of a planned 3-3 in the first case and finished after the end of the music with just five triples (one 3z, no loop) in the latter.

Michelle's Red Violin from this Skate America is one of my most favorite imperfect 6.0-scoring programs ever!

[Susan M]

By the way I am not saying the judges should have given her those marks. The judges under the same system gave Bonaly 5.8s and 5.9s for horrible and cheated jumps too. I wouldn't expect less of how they would treat Hughes.

I think you are ignoring the reality that judges have to mark skaters in real time, without benefit of camera close-ups and slow-mo replays. A lot of small flaws have always been ignored by judges because they are not so apparent when scoring at the rink in real time. There also was the "benefit of the doubt" factor. Judges only took off for things like flutzes, two-footed landings and underrotation if they were confident that's what they saw. (Hence, for example, the two judges on the far end of the '94 panel, failed to deduct for Baiul's 2-footed lutz, while the other 7 saw it well enough to be sure.) To someone who likes to analyze close-up replays frame-by-frame, this is a negative which has been cured somewhat by the technical callers having access to replays. On the positive side, it meant judges were not deducting for flaws that did not look like errors to the audiences either. Interesting, some of the COP changes the ISU has made in the past couple years are an attempt to get the callers and the arena audience back on the same page.

[foreverkwanfan]

Since this is kind of on the subject, what did Scott mean when Sarah won that she will be sending Irina flowers for the rest of her life. I never got that.

[DickButtonFan]

Since this is kind of on the subject, what did Scott mean when Sarah won that she will be sending Irina flowers for the rest of her life. I never got that.

Because back then if you were in 4th place after the short (which is where Sarah placed in the sp), in the long program you had to have someone else beat the first place finisher (which was Kwan). Irina beat kwan in that long program, therefore Sarah was able to win the gold.

[DickButtonFan]

Should also add this is where Terry Gannon's saying of "control your own destiny" came in. If you placed in 1-3 range for the short program you could control your own destiny, meaning if you won the long program you won overall. However, if you were in Sara's position, being 4th after the sp, you now could not control your own destiny. You had to rely on someone else to beat the 1st place finisher.

[foreverkwanfan]

K, got it, thank you for explaining that.

[Marco]

Because back then if you were in 4th place after the short (which is where Sarah placed in the sp), in the long program you had to have someone else beat the first place finisher (which was Kwan). Irina beat kwan in that long program, therefore Sarah was able to win the gold.

Slutskaya helped Kwan win the 2000 World title that same way and almost helped Kwan win the 1997 World title that way too.

However, Kwan failed to help Slutskaya win Skate Canada 2001 by placing third in the free skate behind both Slutskaya and Hughes.